Discussion:
My friend Alan Green already has!
(too old to reply)
Arthur Neuendorffer
2018-01-30 01:41:57 UTC
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John de Vere [13th] Earl of Oxford was an uncle of Edward de Vere's
grandfather: John de Vere [15th] Earl of Oxford.
John de Vere [13th Earl] is the only Earl of Oxford to get mentioned
in _Shakespeare_ [i.e., in Henry VI Part 3 & Richard III] even
Lea wrote: <<Huh? Why should other earls have appeared, Art?>>

Robert de Vere [9th] Earl of Oxford should have been critical to _Richard II_.
There is no mention of Richard de Vere [11th] Earl of Oxford in _Henry V_
nor of Robert de Vere [9th] Earl of Oxford in _Richard II_
nor of John de Vere [7th] Earl of Oxford in _Edward III_ (now thought
to be by Shakespeare)
nor of Robert de Vere [3rd] Earl of Oxford in _King John_
Lea wrote:

<<That's a pretty strong indication that the author was not particularly
interested in Oxford's ancestors, even the more consequential ones,
and hence is VERy unlikely to have been Edward de Vere, Art.>>

Not if the author had to remain _Anonymous_.
Oxfordians consider this snub to be editing that censored Edward de Vere's original.
Lea wrote:

<<Oxfordians invent all manner of utterly ludicrous nonsense in a
vain attempt to make their delusion appear somewhat tenable, Art.>>
-------------------------------------------------------
I first got excited about Oxfordian ciphers from reading about two amazing
(anonymous) near anagrams in John Michell's book _Who Wrote Shakespeare_:
------------------------------------------------
OUR EVER-LIVIN(g)
VERO NIL VERIU(s)

and:

ENVIOU(s) SLIVER
NIL VE(r)O VERIUS
------------------------------------------------
. . Hamlet (Quarto 2, 1604) Act 4, Scene 7
.
Queen: There is a Willow growes ascaunt the Brooke
. That showes his horry leaues in the glassy streame,
. Therewith FANTASTIQUE gaRLANDs did she make
. Of Crowflowers, Nettles, Daises, and long Purples
. That liberall Shepheards giue a *GROS(s)ER NAME* ,
. But our cull-cold maydes doe dead mens fingers call them.
. There on the pendant boughes her *CRONET WEEDES*
. Clambring to hang, an *ENVIOU(s) SLIVER* broke,
. When downe her weedy trophies and her selfe
. Fell in the weeping Brooke, her clothes spred wide,
. And Marmaide like awhile they bore her vp,
. Which time she chaunted snatches of old laudes,
. As one incapable of her owne distresse,
. Or like a creature natiue and indewed
. Vnto that elament, but long it could not be
. Till that her garments heauy with theyr drinke,
. Puld the poore wretch from her melodious lay
. To muddy death.
..................................................
*GROS(s)ER NAME* : *ENVIOU(s) SLIVER*
*ROGE(r) MANERS* : *NIL VE(r)O VERIUS*
----------------------------­-------------­-----------
But it dawned on me that [the Roper] array also contains
an "ENVIOUS SLIV(ER)":
-----------------------------------------------------
.TERRATEGITPOPULUSM Æ R E T O L Y M P U S H A B E T
.....................................................
.STAYPASSENGERWHYGO E S T T H O U B Y S O F A S T R
.EADIFTHOUCANSTWHOM [E N V I O U S]D E A T H H A T H
.PLASTWITHINTHISMON [U]M E N T{S H A K S P E A R E}W
.ITHWHOMEQUICKNATUR [E|D]I D E{W H O S E N A M E D}O
.THDeCKYSTOMBEFARMO [R|E]t H E N C O S T S I E H A L
.LYTHEHATHWRITTLEAV [E S L I V]I N G A R T B U T P A
.GETOSERVEHISWITT
-----------------------------------------------------
I believe that Oxford wrote the (self referential) Hamlet 1603 Quarto
while others (including Rutland & Lord STRANGE) improved upon it for
the 1604 Quarto. After Rutland died in 1612 William Stanley honored
Roger Manners in Hamlet's letter:
----------------------------­-------------­-----------
1623 Folio (Act 4, Scene 7)
Claudius reads Hamlet's letter to Laertes:

'High and mighty, You shall know I am set naked on
your kingdom. To-morrow shall I beg leave to see
your kingly eyes: when I shall, first asking your
pardon thereunto, recount the occasion of my sudden

*AND MORE STRANGE RE(t)URN*.' 'HAMLET.'
......................................
_ *AND MORE STRANGE RE(t)URN*
_ *ROGER MANNERS, E. RUT(l)AND*
---------------------------------------------------
However, since John de Vere [13th Earl] helped Richmond become Henry VII (and thus
start the House of Tudor) Elizabeth was OK with him being recognized in Shakespeare
(along with Sir William Stanley: the ancestor of William Stanley, 6th Earl
of Derby: Edward de Vere's son-in-law and probably coauthor of the [W.S]hakespeare
canon).
Lea wrote:

<<There is no more evidence of William Stanley's involvement
in the Shakespeare canon than there is of Edward de Vere's, Art.>>

There is *MORE* cipher evidence of [W]illiam [S]tanley's involvement
in the Shakespeare canon than there is of Edward de Vere's, Dave:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Was *THOMAS LODGE* the *PAGE* that served W.S.'s WIT?
........................................................
Job 31:32 The *STRANGER* did no{T LODGE} in the street:
. but I opened my doores to the trauailer.
-------------------------------------------------------
Ben Jonson (1623) _To the Memory of Shakespeare_
.............................................
My Shakespeare, rise; I will no{T LODGE} thee by
Chaucer, or Spenser, or bid Beaumont lye
A little further, to make thee a roome :
Thou art a Moniment, without a TOMBe,
.............................................
Shine *FORTH*, thou Starr{E O}f Poets, and wi[T]h rage,
Or inf[L]uence, chide, [O]r cheere the [D]rooping Sta[G]e;
Which, sinc[E] thy flight fro' hence, hath mourn'd like night,
And despaires day, but for thy Volumes light.
.............................................
. <= 11 =>
.
. S h i n e*F O R T H* t
. h o u S t a r r{E O} f
. P o e t s,a n d w i [T]
. h r a g e.O r i n f [L]
. u e n c e,c h i d e,[O]
. r c h e e r e t h e [D]
. r o o p i n g S t a [G]
. e;W h i c h,s i n c [E]
. t h y f l i g h t
.
[T LODGE] 11 : Prob. at end of poem ~ 1 in 18,000
..................................................
(Shortest positive ELS [T LODGE] skip in KJV = 25)
-----------------------------------------------------------
http://pages.uoregon.edu/rbear/muses.html

. THE TEARES OF THE MUSES (1591) BY ED. Sp.
. (dedicated to *[ALICE S]PENCER*, Countess of Derby)
.......................................................
. All places th{EY} with follie have possest,
. And with vaine toyes the vulgar[E] entertaine;
. But me have banished, with all the rest
. That whi[L]ome wont to wait upon my traine,
. Fine Counterfesaunce and {U}[N]hurtfull Sport,
. Delight and Laughter deckt in seemly sor{T}.
.[A]ll these, and all that els the comick stage
. With seasoned wi[T] and goodly pleasance graced,
. By which mans life in his like[S]t image
. Was limned *FORTH*, are wholly now defaced;
. And those s[W]eete wits which wont the like to frame
. Are now despizd, and made a laughing game.
. And he, the man whom Nature selfe had made
. To mock her selfe, and *TRUTH* to imitate,
. With kindly counter under *MIMICK SHADE* ,
. Our p{LE(a)SANT WILLY}, ah! *IS DEAD* of late:
. With whom all joy and jolly meriment
. Is also deaded, and in dolour drent.
...................................................
. p{LE(a)SANT WILLY}
. {WILL STANLEY}
.......................................................
______ <= 49 =>
.
. Allplacest h {E/Y} withfolliehavepossestAndwithvainetoy
. esthevulga r [E] entertaineButmehavebanishedwithallthe
. restThatwh i [L] omewonttowaituponmytraineFineCounterf
. esaunceand {U}[N] hurtfullSportDelightandLaughterdeckti
. nseemlysor {T}[A] lltheseandallthatelsthecomickstageWit
. hseasonedw i [T] andgoodlypleasancegracedBywhichmansli
. feinhislik e [S] timageWaslimnedFORTHarewhollynowdefac
. edAndthose s [W] eetewitswhichwonttheliketoframeArenow
. despizdand m a dealaughinggame
.
[W.STANLE/Y}] -49 :
Prob. near to {Our p-LE(a)SANT WILLY} ~ 1 in 32,000
---------------------------------------------------
*TELLESTICKS* found by Jones Harris & John Rollett
............................................................
The Names of the *26* Principall Actors in all these Playes.

[William Shakespeare]
Richard B(ū)rba(D)ge.
John Hemmings.
Augusti(ñ)e Phillip [S].
William Kemp [T].
Thom(ā)s Poop (e).
George Brya (N).
Henry C(O)n[D]el [L].
W(I)l(L)iam S(L) (Y|E).
{R}ichard Cowl [Y].
John Low(I)ne.
Samuell Crosse.
A(L|E]xander Co(O)k{E}.
---------------------------------------------------------------
*STONE*, n. [OE. ston, *STAN*; akin to OS. & OFries. *STEN*,
D. *STEEN*, G. stein, Sw. *STEN*, Dan. *STEEN*, Gr. a pebble.]
..........................................................
Prob. of 'St(e)nley' or 'St(a)nley' ~ 1 in 2,500,000
.................................................................
Prob. (at least) 6 of the 7[ST(e)NLEY] guys were Lord *STRANGE's*
Men while only (at most) 3 of the other 19 PA's were ~ 1 in 450
----------------------------------------------------------------
Source: http://tinyurl.com/lju45g7
https://archive.org/stream/poeticalworksofw00bass#page/114/mode/2up
.
. ELEGY ON SHAKESPEARE,
. From Lansdowne MS.(777) TEMP. James I.
......................................................
. On Mr. Wm. Shakespeare
. HE DYED IN APRILL 1616
.
. Renowned Spencer lye a thought more nye
. To learned Chaucer, and rare Beaumond lye
. A little neerer Spenser, to make roome
. For *SHAK{E}SPEARE* in your threefold, fowerfol{D} Tombe.
.(To LODGE) all fowre in one bed m{A}ke a shift
. Untill Doomesdaye, for ha{R}dly will a sift
. Betwixt ys day and yt {B}y *FATE* be slayne,
. For whom your Curta{I}nes may be drawn againe.
. If yoUr prec{E}dency in death doth barre
. A *FOURTH* place in your sacred sepulcher,
. Under this carved marble of thine owne,
. Sleepe, rare Tragœdian, Shakespeare, sleep alone;
. Thy unmolested peace unshared Cave,
. Possesse as Lord, not Tenant, of thy Grave,
. That unto us & others it may be
. Honor hereafter to be layde by thee.

- Wm. Basse
.....................................
_______ <= 30 =>
.
. For*SHAK{E}SPEARE* inyourthreefoldf
. owerfol {D} TOMBE ToLODGEallfowrein
. onebedm {A} keash iftUntillDoomesda
. yeforha {R} dlywi llasiftBetwixtysd
. ayandyt {B} yFATE beslayneForwhomyo
. urCurta {I} nesma ybedrawnagaineIfy
. oUrprec {E} dency indeathdothbarreA
. FOURTHp l acEin yoursacredsepulcher
.
{E.DARBIE} 30 : Prob. ~ 1 in 10,300
..........................................................
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo/A12017.0001.001?view=toc

<<The most lamentable Romaine tragedie of Titus Andronicus
As it was plaide by the right honourable the {E}arle of {DARBIE},
*Earl of PEMBROOKE* , and Earl of Sussex their seruants.

London: Printed by Iohn Danter, and are to be sold by
Edward White & Thomas Millington, at the little North
doore of Paules at the signe of the Gunne, 1594.>>
.....................................................
(Shortest positive ELS {DARBIE} skip in KJV = 33)
---------------------------------------------------
http://www.bartleby.com/331/186.html
.
. Rosalynde (1590) by *THOMAS LODGE*
_Phoebe's Sonnet, a Reply to Montanus' Passion_

When Love was first begot,
And by the *moVER's WILL*
Did fall to human lot
His solace to fulfil,
Devoid of all deceit,
A chaste and holy fire
Did quick[E]n man's conce[I]t,
And women's [B]reast inspi[R]e.
The gods th[A]t saw the goo[D]
That mortal{S} did approve,
{W}ith kind and holy mood
Began to talk of Love.
...................................
. <= 11 =>
.
. D i d q u i c k [E] n m
. a n's c o n c e [I] t,A
. n d w o m e n's [B] r e
. a s t i n s p i [R] e.T
. h e g o d s t h [A] t s
. a w t h e g o o [D] T h
. a t m o r t a l {S} d i
. d a p p r o v e,{W} i t
. h k i n d a n d h o l
. y m o o d
.
[{W.S.} DARBIE] -11 : Prob. in song ~ 1 in 3,650,000
.......................................................
But during this accord,
A wonder *STRANGE* to hear,
Whilst Love in deed and word
Most faithful did appear,
False-semblance came in place,
By Jealousy attended,
And with a double face
Both love and fancy blended;
Which made the gods forsake,
And men from fancy fly,
And maidens scorn a make,
Forsooth, and so *WILL I*.
..................................................
. Epilogue _ROSALYNDE OR, EUPHUES' GOLDEN LEGACY_
.
If you grace me with that favor, you encourage
me to be more forward; and as soon as I have
overlooked my labors, expect the Sailor's Calendar.
.
. *T. LODGE. FINIS*
---------------------------------------------------------------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Lodge

<<THOMAS LODGE (1558 - September 1625) was an English dramatist.
He was born at West HAM, the second son of Sir Thomas Lodge,
who was Lord Mayor of the City of London in 1562-1563.

Young Thomas served as *PAGE* to the Stanleys, Earls of Derby,
until approximately 1571, when he enrolled in the
Merchant-Taylors' School. From there he went on to
Trinity College, Oxford, where he took his degree in 1577.>>
---------------------------------------------------
david kathman wrote:

<<In 1596, *THOMAS LODGE* in his *WITS MISERy* mentioned
the "ghost which cried so MISERably at the Theatre,
*like an OISTER-WIFE*, 'HAMlet, REVEnge'.">>
------------------------------------------------------
In his Frontline essay, William Murphy
mentions *THOMAS LODGE* once and only once:
.........................................................
Thirty-Six Plays in Search of an Author
by William M. Murphy, Union College Symposium 1964
.............................................................
There are those, like Delia Bacon, who are afflicted with what
has been called the "Corporation Syndrome," holding that such
distinguished literature must be the work of a commi[T]tee.
Its members wou[L]d include, in additi[O]n to BACON and Oxfor[D],
Robert GREENE, Geor[G]e PEELE, Samuel DANI[E]L, Thomas NASHE,
*THOMAS LODGE*, Michael Drayton, and Thomas Dekker.
....................................................
_________ <= 17 =>
.
. m u s t b e t h e w o r k o f a c
. o m m i [T] t e e.I t s m e m b e r
. s w o u [L] d i n c l u d e,i n a d
. d i t i [O] n t o B a c o n a n d O
. x f o r [D] R o b e r t G r e e n e,
. G e o r [G] e P e e l e,S a m u e l
. D a n i [E] l,T h o m a s N a s h e,
.*T H O M A S L O D G E*

[T.LODGE] 17 : Prob. stuck on *THOMAS LODGE* ~ 1 in 100,000
-----------------------------------------------------
Henry IV, Part 1 (Quarto 1, 1598) Act I, scene iii
.
EARL OF WORCESTER: Peace coosen, say no more.
. And now *I WILL UNCLASPE a SECRET BOOKE* ,
. And to your quicke conceiuing discontents
. Ile read[E] you matter deepe and daun[G]erous,
. As full of perill an[D] aduenterous spirit,
. As to [O]rewalke a Current roring [L]owd,
. On the vnstedfast foo[T]ing of a *SPEARE*.
....................................................
____ <= 22 =>

. *U N C L A S P E a S E C R E T B O O K E*, A n
. d t o y o u r q u i c k e c o n c e i u i n
. g d i s c o n t e n t s I l e r e a d[E] y o
. u m a t t e r d e e p e a n d d a u n[G] e r
. o u s,A s f u l l o f p e r i l l a n[D] a d
. u e n t e r o u s s p i r i t,A s t o[O] r e
. w a l k e a C u r r e n t r o r i n g[L] o w
. d,O n t h e v n s t e d f a s t f o o[T] i n
. g o f a*S P E A R E*.

[T LODGE] -22 (one of 6 *SPEARE*s) (only *SECRET BOOKE*)
----------------------------------------------------------
Sketch Book of Geoffrey Crayon, Gent. by Washington Irving.
http://www.bartleby.com/109/6.html

THE MUTABILITY OF LITERATURE.
A COLLOQUY IN WESTMINSTER ABBEY.

I had taken down a little thick quarto, curiously bound in
parchment, with brass *CLASPS*, and seated myself at the table
in a venerable elbow-chair. Instead of reading, howEVER, I was
beguiled by the solemn monastic air and lifeless quiet of the
place, into a train of musing. As I looked around upon the old
volumes in their mouldering covers, thus ranged on the shelves
and apparently nEVER disturbed in their repose, I could not but
consider the library a kind of literary catacomb, where authors,
like mummies, are piously entombed and left to blacken and
moulder in dusty oblivion.

While I sat half-murmuring, half-meditating, these unprofitable
speculations with my head resting on my hand, I was thrumming
with the other hand upon the quarto, until I accidentally
loosened the *CLASPS*; when, to my utter astonishment, the
little book gave two or three yawns, like one awaking from
a *DEEP* sleep, then a husky hem, and at length began to talk.
............................................................
“Ah,” said the little quarto, with a heavy sigh, “I see how it is;
these modern scribblers have superseded all the good old authors.
I suppose nothing is read now-a-days but Sir Philip Sydney’s Arcadia,
Sackville’s stately plays, and Mirror for Magistrates, or the fine-
spun euphuisms of the ‘unparalleled John Lyly.”’
“There you are again mistaken,” said I; “the writers whom you
suppose in vogue, because they happened to be so when you were last
in circulation, have long since had their day. Sir Philip Sydney’s
Arcadia, the immortality of which was so fondly predicted by his
admirers, and which, in truth, is full of noble thoughts, delicate
images, and graceful turns of language, is now scarcely ever
mentioned. Sackville has strutted into obscurity; and even Lyly,
though his writings were once the delight of a court, and apparently
perpetuated by a proverb, is now scarcely known even by name.
............................................................
"My very good sir," said the little quarto, yawning most drearily
in my face, "excuse my interrupting you, but I perceive you are
rather given to prose. I would ask the fate of an author who
was making some noise just as I left the world. His reputation,
however, was considered quite temporary. The learned shook their
heads at him, for he was a poor, half-educated varlet, that knew
little of Latin, and nothing of Greek, and had been obliged to
run the country for deer-stealing. I think his name was
Shakespeare. I presume he soon sunk into oblivion."

"On the contrary," said I, "it is owing to that *VERy man* that
the literature of his period has experienced a duration beyond the
ordinary term of English literature. There rise authors now and
then who seem proof against the mutability of language because
they have rooted themselves in the unchanging principles of
human nature. They are like gigantic trees that we sometimes
see on the banks of a stream, which by their vast and *DEEP* roots,
penetrating through the mere surface and laying hold on the VERy
foundations of the earth, preserve the soil around them from
being swept away by the EVER-flowing current, and hold up many
a neighboring plant, and perhaps WORTHless WEED, to perpetuity.
Such is the case with Shakespeare, whom we behold defying the
encroachments of time, retaining in modern use the language and
literature of his day, and giving duration to many an indifferent
author, merely from having flourished in his vicinity. But even
he, I grieve to say, is gradually assuming the tint of age,
and his whole form is overrun by a profusion of commentators,
who, like clambering vines and creepers, almost
*bury the NOBLE plant* that upholds them."
.........................................................
{W}hat (D)reary waste{S} of m(E)taphysics! H[E]re a(N)d there o(N)ly
[D]o we behold th(E) he[A]ven-illumine(D) ba[R]ds, elevated like
[B]eacons on their w[I]dely-separated h[E]ights, to transmit
the pure light of poetical intelligence from age to age."

I was just about to launch *FORTH* into eulogiums upon the poets
of the day, when the sudden opening of the door caused me to
turn my head. It was the VERgEr, who came to inform me that
it was time to close the library. I sought to have a parting
word with the quarto, but the worthy little tome was silent;
the *CLASPS* were closed: and it looked perfectly
unconscious of all that had passed.
.........................................................
. <= 15 =>
.
. {W} h a t(D)r e a r y w a s t e
. {S} o f m(E)t a p h y s i c s!H
. [E] r e a(N)d t h e r e o(N)l y
. [D] o w e b e h o l d t h(E)h e
. [A] v e n-i l l u m i n e(D)b a
. [R] d s,e l e v a t e d l i k e
. [B] e a c o n s o n t h e i r w
. [I] d e l y-s e p a r a t e d h
. [E] i g h t s,t o t r a n s m i
. t t h e p u r e l i g h t o f
. p (O)e t i c a l i n t e l l i
. g (E)n c e f r o m a g e t o a
. g e.
.
(NED) -15,15 : Prob. both in array ~ 1 in 150
[{W.S.} E.DARBIE] 15
.
Prob. of [{W.S.} E.DARBIE] in last 2 sentences ~ 1 in 57,000,000.
-----------------------------------------------------
An interesting absence in Shakespeare's History plays (from King John to
Henry VIII) is the lack of a Henry VII play
Lea wrote:

<<Huh?! What are you gibbering about, Art?! There are *plenty* of English Kings between John and Henry VIII about whom Shakespeare did not write history plays! For example, there is no history play about Henry III, although he reigned for oVER half a century! MoreoVER, his reign was a VERy eventful one. Nor is there a history play devoted to Edward I ("Longshanks"), despite the ample dramatic possibilities afforded by personages like William Wallace. The same can be said of Edward II, despite the dramatic possibilities afforded by personalities like Robert the Bruce, Piers Gaveston, and Roger Mortimer. (The Piers Gaveston scandal in particular ought to have appealed to Oxford.)>>

I nEVER said the *ONLY* absence...just the most interesting one
(considering the relevance to the current ruling family).
(; Francis Bacon had to write a biography of Henry VII in 1622 just
before the First Folio came out in 1623 to compensate for this absence).
Lea wrote:

<<No, Art. Bacon did not *have* to write anything to compensate for the absence of any play in the First Folio, because Bacon had nothing whateVER to do with the Shakespeare canon, except in the delusions of crackpot cryptographers.>>

Shakespeare was part of his Great Instauration.
Oxfordians explain this absent History play by the shabby way John de Vere [13th]
Earl of Oxford was eventually treated by Henry VII with a fine of £10,000 [$5 million today!]
for having too many retainers [a sort of private army in full-time service to the lord
rather than the king]. Note that King Lear (who had 3 daughters like Edward de Vere)
Lea wrote: <<Oxford's daughters were not like Lear's daughters, Art.>>

*SUSANNA VEARE* Herbert was much like Cordelia.
---------------------------------------------------------------
. The Susan Constant: May 26
.
Vesalius' _Fabrica_ published May 26, 1543
Esmé Stewart dies May 26, 1583
*SUSANNA ShakespEARE* Hall: (May 26, 1583 - July 11, 1649)
*SUSANNA VEARE* Herbert: (May 26, 1587 - Feb. 1, 1629)
HENRY PORTER disappears May 26, 1599
Samuel PEPYS dies May 26, 1703
----------------------------------------------------
was also brought to ruin when two of his daughters
conspired to strip him of his 100 retainers.
Lea wrote:

<<Oxford was *not* brought to ruin by any machinations
of his daughters as Lear was, Art.>>

If you had to provide 100 retainers for your daughter's
orthodontry you would have gone broke as well, Dave.
Shakespeare was obsessed with the ways of aristocracy and discovering who
wrote Shakespeare may shed light upon the meanings & motives of such works
(; at least, more so than by visiting the Stratford "birthplace").
Lea wrote: <<You, of all people, *ought* to visit the birthplace, Art.>>

My friend Alan Green already has: http://www.tobeornottobe.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
nordicskiv2
2018-01-30 15:44:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
John de Vere [13th] Earl of Oxford was an uncle of Edward de Vere's
grandfather: John de Vere [15th] Earl of Oxford.
John de Vere [13th Earl] is the only Earl of Oxford to get mentioned
in _Shakespeare_ [i.e., in Henry VI Part 3 & Richard III] even
Take heart, Art -- the 13 Earl may not have been mentioned by Shakespeare, but he definitely *was* mentioned by Eric Altschuler, who confuses him with the 17th Earl.
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
Lea wrote: <<Huh? Why should other earls have appeared, Art?>>
Robert de Vere [9th] Earl of Oxford should have been critical to _Richard II_.
But that Earl, like the 17th, was VERy unpopular with his peers, Art.
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
There is no mention of Richard de Vere [11th] Earl of Oxford in _Henry V_
nor of Robert de Vere [9th] Earl of Oxford in _Richard II_
nor of John de Vere [7th] Earl of Oxford in _Edward III_ (now thought
to be by Shakespeare)
nor of Robert de Vere [3rd] Earl of Oxford in _King John_
<<That's a pretty strong indication that the author was not particularly
interested in Oxford's ancestors, even the more consequential ones,
and hence is VERy unlikely to have been Edward de Vere, Art.>>
Not if the author had to remain _Anonymous_.
What makes you think (usual disclaimer) that the author had to remain anonymous, Art?!
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
Oxfordians consider this snub to be editing that censored Edward de Vere's
original.
<<Oxfordians invent all manner of utterly ludicrous nonsense in a
vain attempt to make their delusion appear somewhat tenable, Art.>>
I first got excited about Oxfordian ciphers from reading about two amazing
You prove my point *ipso facto*, Art!
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
OUR EVER-LIVIN(g)
VERO NIL VERIU(s)
That's not an anagram, Art. And it *certainly* is not "amazing", except perhaps in the first OED sense, where "amaze" means "Loss of one's wits", and even at that only in the case of the weak-minded.
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
ENVIOU(s) SLIVER
NIL VE(r)O VERIUS
That's not an anagram, Art. And it *certainly* is not "amazing", except perhaps in the first OED sense, where "amaze" means "Loss of one's wits", and even at that only in the case of the weak-minded.
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
. . Hamlet (Quarto 2, 1604) Act 4, Scene 7
.
Queen: There is a Willow growes ascaunt the Brooke
. That showes his horry leaues in the glassy streame,
. Therewith FANTASTIQUE gaRLANDs did she make
. Of Crowflowers, Nettles, Daises, and long Purples
. That liberall Shepheards giue a *GROS(s)ER NAME* ,
. But our cull-cold maydes doe dead mens fingers call them.
. There on the pendant boughes her *CRONET WEEDES*
. Clambring to hang, an *ENVIOU(s) SLIVER* broke,
. When downe her weedy trophies and her selfe
. Fell in the weeping Brooke, her clothes spred wide,
. And Marmaide like awhile they bore her vp,
. Which time she chaunted snatches of old laudes,
. As one incapable of her owne distresse,
. Or like a creature natiue and indewed
. Vnto that elament, but long it could not be
. Till that her garments heauy with theyr drinke,
. Puld the poore wretch from her melodious lay
. To muddy death.
..................................................
*GROS(s)ER NAME* : *ENVIOU(s) SLIVER*
*ROGE(r) MANERS* : *NIL VE(r)O VERIUS*
That's not an anagram, Art. And it *certainly* is not "amazing", except perhaps in the first OED sense, where "amaze" means "Loss of one's wits", and even at that only in the case of the weak-minded.

In any case, Art, it makes no sense to bring up Roger Manners in this context -- after all, Oxford was notorious not as a roger-manner, but as a roger-boyer (when he wasn't rogering Venetian courtesans, of course).
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
But it dawned on me that [the Roper] array also contains
-----------------------------------------------------
.TERRATEGITPOPULUSM Æ R E T O L Y M P U S H A B E T
.....................................................
.STAYPASSENGERWHYGO E S T T H O U B Y S O F A S T R
.EADIFTHOUCANSTWHOM [E N V I O U S]D E A T H H A T H
.PLASTWITHINTHISMON [U]M E N T{S H A K S P E A R E}W
.ITHWHOMEQUICKNATUR [E|D]I D E{W H O S E N A M E D}O
.THDeCKYSTOMBEFARMO [R|E]t H E N C O S T S I E H A L
.LYTHEHATHWRITTLEAV [E S L I V]I N G A R T B U T P A
.GETOSERVEHISWITT
The string "envious sliver" does not appear in the above text, Art.
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
I believe that Oxford wrote the (self referential) Hamlet 1603 Quarto
Huh? In what way is the 1603 Quarto edition "self referential", Art?!
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
while others (including Rutland & Lord STRANGE) improved upon it for
the 1604 Quarto. After Rutland died in 1612 William Stanley honored
----------------------------­-------------­-----------
1623 Folio (Act 4, Scene 7)
'High and mighty, You shall know I am set naked on
your kingdom. To-morrow shall I beg leave to see
your kingly eyes: when I shall, first asking your
pardon thereunto, recount the occasion of my sudden
*AND MORE STRANGE RE(t)URN*.' 'HAMLET.'
......................................
_ *AND MORE STRANGE RE(t)URN*
_ *ROGER MANNERS, E. RUT(l)AND*
That's not an anagram, Art. And it *certainly* is not "amazing", except perhaps in the first OED sense, where "amaze" means "Loss of one's wits", and even at that only in the case of the weak-minded.

In any case, Art, it makes no sense to bring up Roger Manners in this context -- after all, Oxford was notorious not as a roger-manner, but as a roger-boyer (when he wasn't rogering Venetian courtesans, of course).
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
However, since John de Vere [13th Earl] helped Richmond become Henry VII (and thus
start the House of Tudor) Elizabeth was OK with him being recognized in Shakespeare
(along with Sir William Stanley: the ancestor of William Stanley, 6th Earl
of Derby: Edward de Vere's son-in-law and probably coauthor of the [W.S]hakespeare
canon).
<<There is no more evidence of William Stanley's involvement
in the Shakespeare canon than there is of Edward de Vere's, Art.>>
There is *MORE* cipher evidence of [W]illiam [S]tanley's involvement
No, Art. There is *no* credible cipher "evidence" of William Stanley's involvement in the Shakespeare canon, just as there is none of Edward de Vere's involvement. Zero is *not* greater than zero, Art; the inequality is not strict.
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
Was *THOMAS LODGE* the *PAGE* that served W.S.'s WIT?
In a word: No.

[Lunatic logorrhea snipped]
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
. p{LE(a)SANT WILLY}
. {WILL STANLEY}
That's not an anagram, Art. And it *certainly* is not "amazing", except perhaps in the first OED sense, where "amaze" means "Loss of one's wits", and even at that only in the case of the weak-minded.
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
______ <= 49 =>
.
. Allplacest h {E/Y} withfolliehavepossestAndwithvainetoy
. esthevulga r [E] entertaineButmehavebanishedwithallthe
. restThatwh i [L] omewonttowaituponmytraineFineCounterf
. esaunceand {U}[N] hurtfullSportDelightandLaughterdeckti
. nseemlysor {T}[A] lltheseandallthatelsthecomickstageWit
. hseasonedw i [T] andgoodlypleasancegracedBywhichmansli
. feinhislik e [S] timageWaslimnedFORTHarewhollynowdefac
. edAndthose s [W] eetewitswhichwonttheliketoframeArenow
. despizdand m a dealaughinggame
.
[W.STANLE/Y}]
The text "WSTANLEY" does not appear as an equidistant letter sequence of skip 49 -- or indeed, as an equidistant letter sequence of *any* skip -- in the above text, Art. And "UT [sic]" is moronic nonsense, besides being remarkably unimpressive as a two-character equidistant letter sequence.

[Crackpot cryptography snipped]
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
An interesting absence in Shakespeare's History plays (from King John to
Henry VIII) is the lack of a Henry VII play
<<Huh?! What are you gibbering about, Art?! There are *plenty* of English
Kings between John and Henry VIII about whom Shakespeare did not write
history plays! For example, there is no history play about Henry III,
although he reigned for oVER half a century! MoreoVER, his reign was a
VERy eventful one. Nor is there a history play devoted to Edward I
("Longshanks"), despite the ample dramatic possibilities afforded by
personages like William Wallace. The same can be said of Edward II,
despite the dramatic possibilities afforded by personalities like Robert
the Bruce, Piers Gaveston, and Roger Mortimer. (The Piers Gaveston scandal
in particular ought to have appealed to Oxford.)>>
I nEVER said the *ONLY* absence...just the most interesting one
(considering the relevance to the current ruling family).
And you think (usual disclaimer) that Shakespeare, in the early 1600s, *predicted* what the current ruling family would be, Art?! Or is this another casualty of your illiteracy in English?
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
(; Francis Bacon had to write a biography of Henry VII in 1622 just
before the First Folio came out in 1623 to compensate for this absence).
<<No, Art. Bacon did not *have* to write anything to compensate for the
absence of any play in the First Folio, because Bacon had nothing whateVER
to do with the Shakespeare canon, except in the delusions of crackpot
cryptographers.>>
Shakespeare was part of his Great Instauration.
There is no evidence whateVER that Shakespeare had anything to do with Bacon's Great Instauration, Art.
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
Oxfordians explain this absent History play by the shabby way John de Vere [13th]
Earl of Oxford was eventually treated by Henry VII with a fine of £10,000
[$5 million today!]
for having too many retainers [a sort of private army in full-time service to the lord
rather than the king]. Note that King Lear (who had 3 daughters like Edward de Vere)
Lea wrote: <<Oxford's daughters were not like Lear's daughters, Art.>>
*SUSANNA VEARE* Herbert was much like Cordelia.
Even if one granted that, one out of three is VERy unimpressive, Art.
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
. The Susan Constant: May 26
.
Vesalius' _Fabrica_ published May 26, 1543
Esmé Stewart dies May 26, 1583
*SUSANNA ShakespEARE* Hall: (May 26, 1583 - July 11, 1649)
*SUSANNA VEARE* Herbert: (May 26, 1587 - Feb. 1, 1629)
HENRY PORTER disappears May 26, 1599
Samuel PEPYS dies May 26, 1703
This list looks *much* shorter than it did the first few thousand times you posted it, Art! Perhaps you are not *completely* ineducable after all!
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
was also brought to ruin when two of his daughters
conspired to strip him of his 100 retainers.
<<Oxford was *not* brought to ruin by any machinations
of his daughters as Lear was, Art.>>
If you had to provide 100 retainers for your daughter's
orthodontry you would have gone broke as well, Dave.
No, Art; the Trust would have provided.
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
Shakespeare was obsessed with the ways of aristocracy and discovering who
wrote Shakespeare may shed light upon the meanings & motives of such works
(; at least, more so than by visiting the Stratford "birthplace").
Lea wrote: <<You, of all people, *ought* to visit the birthplace, Art.>>
My friend Alan Green already has: http://www.tobeornottobe.org/
Thanks for posting this, Art; it's hilarious! And this guy is a friend of yours?! It figures...probably Alex Jones and David Icke are friends of yours as well.

But the mere fact that your friend has visited the Shakespeare birthplace doesn't mean that you cannot visit it as well, Art. Indeed, you *should* visit -- you don't want Jon Ronson to profile Alan Green rather than you in his next book, do you, Art?!

Incidentally, Art, I'd be suspicious if I were you: "Green" in Spanish is _verde_, a perfect anagram of "de Ver"!
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer (aka Noonedafter)
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