Discussion:
Hamlet question: Rosencrantz and Guildenstern in Wittenburg?
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c***@gmail.com
2006-09-19 17:39:21 UTC
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Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are often portrayed in productions as
having been students at Wittenburg with Hamlet (and therefore
Horatio). Is there a textual basis for this?

I'm only finding that they were his "childhood friends," but nothing
more.


Conrad.

ps - Any thoughts on Shakespeare's bigotry? It doesn't bother me,
but then I'm not Jewish.

C.
Tom Reedy
2006-09-19 21:15:25 UTC
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Post by c***@gmail.com
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are often portrayed in productions as
having been students at Wittenburg with Hamlet (and therefore
Horatio). Is there a textual basis for this?
I'm only finding that they were his "childhood friends," but nothing
more.
Conrad.
ps - Any thoughts on Shakespeare's bigotry? It doesn't bother me,
but then I'm not Jewish.
C.
Why would you have to be Jewish to be bothered by bigotry?

TR
Tom Reedy
2006-09-19 21:24:02 UTC
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Post by Tom Reedy
Post by c***@gmail.com
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are often portrayed in productions as
having been students at Wittenburg with Hamlet (and therefore
Horatio). Is there a textual basis for this?
I'm only finding that they were his "childhood friends," but nothing
more.
Conrad.
ps - Any thoughts on Shakespeare's bigotry? It doesn't bother me,
but then I'm not Jewish.
C.
Why would you have to be Jewish to be bothered by bigotry?
TR
Oh, and the textual support for R & G as students with Hamlet is in the
1603 Q.

TR
gonzalo
2006-09-19 22:26:20 UTC
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Post by Tom Reedy
Post by Tom Reedy
Post by c***@gmail.com
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are often portrayed in productions as
having been students at Wittenburg with Hamlet (and therefore
Horatio). Is there a textual basis for this?
I'm only finding that they were his "childhood friends," but nothing
more.
Conrad.
ps - Any thoughts on Shakespeare's bigotry? It doesn't bother me,
but then I'm not Jewish.
C.
Why would you have to be Jewish to be bothered by bigotry?
TR
Oh, and the textual support for R & G as students with Hamlet is in the
1603 Q.
TR
Rosencrantz & Guildenstern, I have come to believe represent,
respectively, Stratford Will Shakspere & Ben Jonson....Guildenstern
doing most of the talking. It was not enough for Will to pretend to be
Shakespeare. He had to have a handler. The quick witted (albeit
illiterate) butcher's son & one time butcher's apprentice, then was
paired up with a classically educated bricklayer's son & one-time
bricklayers apprentice...& it was up to Jonson to take Shakspere here
& there...to match wits at the Mermaid Tavern...& that sort of thing.
Even, with luck, to be seen in public together with Edward de Vere.
Thus "You were sent for, weren't you?"

The tern "schoolfellows" means "theatre people"...& you are
right...there is no reference to R & G ever having been to school in
Wittenburg. There is no reference in all Hamlet to anyone ever having
been to any university except Polonius when he says "When I was at
university..." "Going to school in Wittenburg" has an allegorical
meaning that I would be happy to explain if anyone is interested.
gangleri
2006-09-19 23:07:39 UTC
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Post by gonzalo
Rosencrantz & Guildenstern, I have come to believe represent,
respectively, Stratford Will Shakspere & Ben Jonson....
Extract from an old working note of mine:

How do Prince Hamlet's treacherous School-fellows Rosencrantz and
Guildenstern enter the picture?

'They' are Prince Hamlet's dualistic (Light/Shadow) alter ego
alias Brownswerd, - 4000, introduced in Act II, Sc. ii of the 1611
version as Rosencraus, 6362, and Guyldensterne, 6890 as in 6362 + 6890
= 13252. [...]

***
As in 17252 - 4000 = 13252, where

17252 = Gulielmus filius Johannes Shakspere.

***
Cipher Values may be checked through the Calculator posted at
http://www.light-of-truth.com/gunnartomasson/ciphers.htm
c***@gmail.com
2006-09-20 23:56:31 UTC
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Post by gonzalo
Wittenburg. There is no reference in all Hamlet to anyone ever having
been to any university except Polonius when he says "When I was at
university..." "Going to school in Wittenburg" has an allegorical
meaning that I would be happy to explain if anyone is interested.
I'm very interested.

On the first point, when Hamlet first talks with Horatio: "But what
in faith make you from Wittenburg?" You remember: the truant
disposition bit.


Conrad.
gonzalo
2006-09-21 21:26:42 UTC
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Wittenburg. There is no reference in all Hamlet to anyone ever having
been to any university except Polonius when he says "When I was at
university..." "Going to school in Wittenburg" has an allegorical
meaning that I would be happy to explain if anyone is interested.
I'm very interested.
On the first point, when Hamlet first talks with Horatio: "But what
in faith make you from Wittenburg?" You remember: the truant
disposition bit.
Conrad.
Gentle Conrad...

This is from my book, "The Shakespeare-Cervantes Code"

"WITTENBERG"

There is nothing in "Hamlet" that tells us that anyone in the
play attended university in Wittenberg, or even that there was a
university in Wittenberg. Except for Polonius, there is no mention
in"Hamlet" of anyone having attended any university.
"Wittenberg", in "Hamlet", like "Meissen" in "Henry V"
refers to "a point on the Elbe". From the middle of the 16th
century, there was no doubt in the mind of any European, that England
was about to embark on an empire. From as early as the writing of
"Henry V", de Vere's idea of English empire was one based on the
"Franconian-feudal" model. It was to be an empire extending from
the River Somme, the western boundary of Flanders unto the River Elbe,
the eastern boundary of the empire of Charlemagne. Just as de Vere's
namesake, William I, became King of England by defeating the Saxons of
England...& just as Charlemagne became a Holy Roman emperor by
defeating the Saxons of Germany, & establishing his eastern boundary at
the Elbe, so de Vere, even at the age of 27, had plans to become duke,
then king, then Roman emperor in this grand tradition. The
"Cambrian-mercantile" imperial concept, embraced by Elizabeth I,
the concept that came, eventually, to be known as the "British
Empire" was inimical to a concept that went "to school in
Wittenberg".

Going "to school in Wittenberg" is simply a figure of speech
referring to the conquest of German Saxony by the would-be "Edward
VII of England" & his would-be, Spanish, Field Commander, "the
Count of Lille", Michael de Cervantes.
gonzalo
2006-09-21 21:34:13 UTC
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Post by gonzalo
Wittenburg. There is no reference in all Hamlet to anyone ever having
been to any university except Polonius when he says "When I was at
university..." "Going to school in Wittenburg" has an allegorical
meaning that I would be happy to explain if anyone is interested.
I'm very interested.
On the first point, when Hamlet first talks with Horatio: "But what
in faith make you from Wittenburg?" You remember: the truant
disposition bit.
Conrad.
Gentle Conrad,

This is from my book, "The Shakespeare-Cervantes Code"

"WITTENBERG"

There is nothing in "Hamlet" that tells us that anyone in the
play attended university in Wittenberg, or even that there was a
university in Wittenberg. Except for Polonius, there is no mention
in"Hamlet" of anyone having attended any university.
"Wittenberg", in "Hamlet", like "Meissen" in "Henry V"
refers to "a point on the Elbe". From the middle of the 16th
century, there was no doubt in the mind of any European, that England
was about to embark on an empire. From as early as the writing of
"Henry V", de Vere's idea of English empire was one based on the
"Franconian-feudal" model. It was to be an empire extending from
the River Somme, the western boundary of Flanders unto the River Elbe,
the eastern boundary of the empire of Charlemagne. Just as de Vere's
namesake, William I, became King of England by defeating the Saxons of
England...& just as Charlemagne became a Holy Roman emperor by
defeating the Saxons of Germany, & establishing his eastern boundary at
the Elbe, so de Vere, even at the age of 27, had plans to become duke,
then king, then Roman emperor in this grand tradition. The
"Cambrian-mercantile" imperial concept, embraced by Elizabeth I,
the concept that came, eventually, to be known as the "British
Empire" was inimical to a concept that went "to school in
Wittenberg".

Going "to school in Wittenberg" is simply a figure of speech
referring to the conquest of German Saxony by the would-be "Edward
VII of England" & his would-be, Spanish, Field Commander, "the
Count of Lille", Michael de Cervantes.

When Hamlet declares, "I am mad north-north west but when the
wind is southerly, I know a hawk from a handsaw" he is saying, to
begin with, that when the subject at hand is "mercantile British
Empire", he is clueless. The author had invested heavily in the
Frobisher voyage to find the Northwest Passage to China, & lost
everything. Christopher Hatton, who the author considered a fool, made
an equally substantial investment in an expedition by Francis Drake &
made a fortune. In Shakespeare there are all of 300 references to
"Rome", 200 to "Roman" another hundred to "Caesar". When
the subject was territorial, European, Roman Empire, the author is on
home ground. When the subject is mercantile, overseas empire, the
author frankly admits, he is no brighter than the next guy.

Back in early 1575, de Vere paid a special visit to one Johannes
Sturm in Strasbourg, a well-known Protestant educator, & one who was
greatly admired by de Vere's father-in-law, William Cecil. De Vere,
apparently, had little to say about public education, but had many
questions concerning the defenses of Germany "in the event of an
invasion by Spain". Now the elderly German, knowing de Vere to be
the son-in-law of a famous Protestant, & the child of a Protestant
state, simply assumed that the fiery earl had hoped to join German
Protestants in the defense of Germany in the event of a Spanish
invasion. So impressed was Sturmius by the young de Vere that he told
Cecil that, in this event, there is no one he could think of who would
be more able to be the leader of German troops. With the blessing of
old Sturmius, de Vere had plans to spend the entire summer of 1576 in
Germany evaluating Lutheran defenses. The trip was cut short because
of troubling news back home...but never in his wildest dreams did
Sturmius imagine that de Vere's tour of Germany was meant to prime
the Englishman & his Spanish field commander for a projected
Anglo-Spanish invasion. This was Hamlet & Horatio "going to school
in Wittenberg".

Horatio's confession of a "truant disposition" was
Cervantes telling de Vere that "after more than twenty years of
working on this "Anglo-Spanish project", one that was supposed to
have made Cervantes a Count, & de Vere a Duke, a King & an Emperor,
neither of the two had really gotten anywhere. Thus, had the time come
to call the whole thing off.

De Vere was mortified at the thought of having let down his
confidant & ally Cervantes, who at the time, was the sole survivor of
Lepanto's famous "Band of Brothers". He felt he owed the
Spaniard a profound apology...& an explanation. This explanation was
so painful, however, that it was something meant never to be understood
by anyone but Cervantes. The result was "Hamlet, Prince of
Denmark", a play that is bewildering by design.
Chess One
2006-09-25 13:56:32 UTC
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Post by gonzalo
Going "to school in Wittenberg" is simply a figure of speech
referring to the conquest of German Saxony by the would-be "Edward
VII of England" & his would-be, Spanish, Field Commander, "the
Count of Lille", Michael de Cervantes.
for an author who can use Titania for Britannia, and Oberon for Albion, it
is not a great stretch to read in Wittenberg, Würtemberg - a city with a
very famous university, indeed the same as hosted Andreae [or some say
Valentin Andreae] in 1601 - and his subsequent writing included:-

Vita ab ipso conscripta, ed. F. H. Rheinwald, Berlin 1849. The first
publication of the manuscript of the work at WINTERTHUR in 1799.

and in

Vita p. 10 Andreae's statement that he wrote plays in imitation of the
English players is noted by E, K. Chambers, /Elizabethan Stage/ I p. 344 n.

Indeed the enthusiastic anglophile, Duke of Würtemberg is intrigued by
Andreae's 'Esther' and 'Hyacinth', which the author states he wrote 'in
emulation of English actors', and Elizabeth I called the Duke 'cousin
Mumpellgart' [his family name] - and there is much discussion round the
problem of whether the cryptic references in /Merry Wives of Windsor/ to
'cosen garmombles' and to horses hired at the Garter Inn by retainers of a
German Duke, might have some reference to Frederick of Würtemberg. [see
further in the introduction by C. H. Hart to MWoW, Arden edition, 1904, pp.
xli-xivi.]

Indeed Frederick who very much wanted the Garter - and the corresponding
ceremony at Stuttgart and other 'festivities' are described by E. Cellius in
a Latin account published at Stuttgart 1605, part of which is quoted in
English translation by Elias Ashmole in his history of the Order of the
Garter.

Not incidentally, one of the English officials was Robert Spenser, who is
stated by Cellius to have been a relative of the poet. The interesting point
of this remark is that they had heard of Spenser, and perhaps of his /Faerie
Queene/, at Stuttgart.

Somewhat as parallel to Hamlet the entertainments also included a play, put
on by the visitors - some of whom were English actors! - titled /History of
Susanna. I beleive Ashmole lists these actors.

--------

Stimulated by this event is the both esoteric and political document by
Simon Studeon [with claims of political alliance which are very hard to
veryify, though of circumstances which are not] named the Naometria, and
which refers to a supposed event taking place 17 July 1586 in Lunenburg,
with representatives of the King of Navarre, the King of DENMARK, and the
Queen of England - the object of which was to form alliance against the
Catholic League then active in attempting to repress the prospects of Henry
Navarre to the kingship of France, and such League was titled Confederatio
Militae Evangelicae.

I end with the postscript from Frances Yates who reports "it is not
impossible that John Dee might have attended this Lunenburg meeting; he was
in Leipzig im May 1586, see French, John Dee, p. 121.

To conclude without acuity: I posit there is more to Wittenburg than
singular metaphorical interpretation, or 'a figure of speech', and much in
the spirit of Hamlet's oration would say 'habere, non haberi' which in this
sense request that this information too 'be held' not excluded, rather than
be beholden and held by other alone.

Phil Innes
Alan Jones
2006-09-25 15:32:32 UTC
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Post by Chess One
Post by gonzalo
Going "to school in Wittenberg" is simply a figure of speech
referring to the conquest of German Saxony by the would-be "Edward
VII of England" & his would-be, Spanish, Field Commander, "the
Count of Lille", Michael de Cervantes.
for an author who can use Titania for Britannia, and Oberon for
Albion, it is not a great stretch to read in Wittenberg, Würtemberg -
a city with a very famous university, indeed the same as hosted
Andreae [or some say Valentin Andreae] in 1601[...]
Württemberg was once a Duchy; then a Kingdom; now, with neighbouring Baden,
a Land - never, I think, a city. Its ancient university is at Tübingen, and
its present "capital" is Stuttgart. Far-off Wittenberg would have been at
least as well known in Protestant England as Württemberg, and is indeed a
city. Its university had been founded only a couple of generations before
Shakespeare's time, but was certainly "very famous" as the home of the
reformers Luther and Melanchthon and the scene of Luther's perhaps
apocryphal nailing of his 95 theses to the church door. Neither place is, of
course, anywhere near Denmark.

Alan Jones
Art Neuendorffer
2006-09-25 16:32:01 UTC
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Post by Alan Jones
Post by Chess One
Post by gonzalo
Going "to school in Wittenberg" is simply a figure of speech
referring to the conquest of German Saxony by the would-be
"Edward VII of England" & his would-be, Spanish,
Field Commander, "the Count of Lille", Michael de Cervantes.
for an author who can use Titania for Britannia, and Oberon for
Albion, it is not a great stretch to read in Wittenberg, Würtemberg -
a city with a very famous university, indeed the same as hosted
Andreae [or some say Valentin Andreae] in 1601[...]
Württemberg was once a Duchy; then a Kingdom; now, with neighbouring Baden,
a Land - never, I think, a city. Its ancient university is at Tübingen, and
its present "capital" is Stuttgart. Far-off Wittenberg would have been at
least as well known in Protestant England as Württemberg, and is indeed a
city. Its university had been founded only a couple of generations before
Shakespeare's time, but was certainly "very famous" as the home of the
reformers Luther and Melanchthon and the scene of Luther's perhaps
apocryphal nailing of his 95 theses to the church door.
--------------------------------------------------------------
. www.nortexinfo.net/McDaniel/1031.htm
.
October 31, 1517, [Saturday] Martin Luther attached
. his 95 theses on the door of the church in Wittenberg
.
October 31, 1615, [Saturday] Cervantes' dedication
. to Conde de LEMOS [we read]
---------------------------------------------------------
. QUENTIN of Amiens - Feastday October 31
. Patron saint of PORTERS & TAILORS
.
Feast of Sekhmet & Bast: Dedicated to Sekhmet & Bast.
. Celebrated on October 31.
------------------------------------------------------
April_ 6, 1521 Luther travels to *WORMS*
April 15, 1521 Luther enters *WORMS* . A crowd cheers for him.
April 17, 1521 The first hearing of the Diet of *WORMS*
April 18, 1521 The second hearing of the Diet of *WORMS*
..........................................................
April 25, 1521 The Diet of *WORMS* is dismissed (Thursday)
[25 days after Easter]
.
April 25, 1616 William Shakspere is buried (Thursday)
[25 days after Easter] [95 years after *WORMS* ]
-------------------------------------------------------------
An Ancre's life to leade, with NAILES to scratche my grave,
Where earthly *WORMES* on me shall fede, is all the joyes I crave;
And hide my self from SHAME, sith that myne eyes doe see,
Ah, a alantida my deare dame, hath thus tormented me. - *E.O.*
.
http://drk.sd23.bc.ca/DeVere/Oxford Poems and Songs-18.pdf
http://www3.telus.net/oxford/oxfordspoems.html#3
-----------------------------------------------------------
_The Ingenious Gentleman Don Quixote de la Mancha_ (Part I)
____________________ [JUAN DE LA *CUESTA* press.]
...........................................................
<<"King John(JOAO/JUAN) of Portugal [was] known in history for
his victories over the Moors and in particular for his conquest
of *CEUTA* in 1415, a powerful Moorish stronghold, and his
establishment of an episcopal see within its walls. Twice 95
years later _The Ingenious Gentleman Don Quixote de la Mancha_
came off the press of JUAN DE LA *CUESTA* .>>
---------------------------------------------------------------
. Poe, Edgar Allan - ( X-ING A PARAGRAB )
.
"Oh, yes! Oh, we perceive! Oh, no doubt! Oh, my! Oh, goodness! Oh,
tempora! Oh, Moses!" Why, the fellow is all O! That accounts for his
*reasoning in a circle* , and explains why there is neither beginning
nor end to him, nor to anything he says. We really do not believe the
VAGABOND can write a word that hasn't an *O* in it. Wonder if this
O-ing is a habit of his? By-the-by, he came away from Down-East
in a great hurry. Wonder if he O's as much there
as he does HERE? "O! it is pitiful."'
-----------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
Chess One
2006-09-25 21:38:54 UTC
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Post by Alan Jones
Post by Chess One
Post by gonzalo
Going "to school in Wittenberg" is simply a figure of speech
referring to the conquest of German Saxony by the would-be "Edward
VII of England" & his would-be, Spanish, Field Commander, "the
Count of Lille", Michael de Cervantes.
for an author who can use Titania for Britannia, and Oberon for
Albion, it is not a great stretch to read in Wittenberg, Würtemberg -
a city with a very famous university, indeed the same as hosted
Andreae [or some say Valentin Andreae] in 1601[...]
Württemberg was once a Duchy; then a Kingdom; now, with neighbouring
Baden, a Land - never, I think, a city. Its ancient university is at
Tübingen, and its present "capital" is Stuttgart.
Tubingen where Kepler was, and as they say in Swabich, alzo in Stu'gar.
Post by Alan Jones
Far-off Wittenberg would have been at least as well known in Protestant
England as Württemberg, and is indeed a city. Its university had been
founded only a couple of generations before Shakespeare's time, but was
certainly "very famous" as the home of the reformers Luther and
Melanchthon and the scene of Luther's perhaps apocryphal nailing of his 95
theses to the church door. Neither place is, of course, anywhere near
Denmark.
Alan Jones
Of course it is not physically near Denmark, Alan, though I progressed in my
entire post through references to the rulers of the northern states, and
that odd claim of Simeon viz: Navarre, Denmark and England, and unto John
Dee's visit there at the same time. Those political and philosophical
connections /are/ 'near'. So I would say, also as so said that good woman
Frances Yates. Phil
Art Neuendorffer
2006-09-26 00:32:47 UTC
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.
Post by Chess One
for an author who can use Titania for Britannia, and Oberon for
Albion, it is not a great stretch to read in Wittenberg, Würtemberg -
a city with a very famous university, indeed the same as hosted
Andreae [or some say Valentin Andreae] in 1601[...]
-----------------------------------------------------------
Alan Jones wrote:
.
<<Württemberg was once a Duchy; then a Kingdom; now, with neighbouring

Baden, a Land - never, I think, a city. Its ancient university is at
Tübingen, and its present "capital" is Stuttgart. Far-off Wittenberg
would have been at least as well known in Protestant England as
Württemberg, and is indeed a city. Its university had been founded
only
a couple of generations before Shakespeare's time, but was certainly
"very famous" as the home of the reformers Luther and Melanchthon and
the scene of Luther's perhaps apocryphal nailing of his 95 theses to
the church door. Neither place is, of course, anywhere near Denmark. >>
-----------------------------------------------------------
Loading Image...
Loading Image...
.
http://www.plz-postleitzahl.de/land.sachsen-anhalt/lutherstadt_wittenberg/karte-
Lutherstadt%20Wittenberg.gif
Loading Image...
.
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/wittenberg-home.html
.
Loading Image...
-----------------------------------------------------------
<<Hamlet was away studying at Wittenberg, the renowned
university located near Berlin and founded in 1502.>>
----------------------------------------------------------
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 12.0213
-------------------------------------------------------------
From: Carol Barton <***@earthlink.net>
Date: Wednesday, 31 Jan 2001
Subject: 12.0213 Re: Wittenberg and Paris
Comment: Re: SHK 12.0213 Re: Wittenberg and Paris
.
Aimee Luzier asks:
.
About Hamlet - Wittenberg and Laertes - Paris... I have heard it
said that the connection may have something to do with Paris being
a particularly Catholic bastion and Wittenberg being a hotbed of
Lutheranism/Calvinism, the latter being particularly interesting
in light of Hamlet's questioning of all of his religious/spiritual
assumptions. Off in the wilds of Oregon and far from my usual reference
material, I cannot seem to remember which famous person it was who did
most of his work from Wittenberg! (It may have been one of the early
scientists).
.
Aimee, it was the bastion of philosophy, and if you recall, Marlowe's
Faustus studied there. It was also to the door of the church at
Wittenberg that Martin Luther nailed the 95 Theses. Many other famous
persons did their work there, but I suspect that it is to these two
things that Shakespeare is most likely alluding, in this context.
Luther
questioned the status quo, the received epistemology -- as Hamlet does;
Faustus was damned by "knowledge for its own sake," for asking too many
questions, for wanting to know more than he needed to know to function
in the world (to be "lowly wise," as Milton's Raphael calls it). Hamlet
is too, in a sense: "for conscience doth make cowards of us all . . .
."
.
I doubt very much that Shakespeare was exploring anything doctrinally
controversial between the Protestants and Catholics in this instance.
That the Ghost comes from Purgatory is significant, in that regard,
except that he can't come from anywhere else: if he is in Heaven, he
wouldn't be "doomed to walk the earth," and if he is in Hell ("be ye
a spirit damned . . .") he will not gain Hamlet's trust at all. (The
young prince is dubious enough about his "father's" pedigree as it is;
I think it is only Horatio's ability to see the Ghost
that leads him to accept it as Old Hamlet at all.)
-------------------------------------------------------------
From: Alex Houck <***@scu.edu>
Date: Tuesday, 30 Jan 2001 14:35:09 -0800
Subject: 12.0213 Re: Wittenberg and Paris
Comment: Re: SHK 12.0213 Re: Wittenberg and Paris
.
Martin Luther did work in Wittenberg, and Marlowe's Dr. Faustus is set
in Wittenberg where the legend of Faustus originated. Aside from being
willing to do word play with anyone, Hamlet's Wittenberg education is
best exemplified in his "What a piece of work is man" speech.
Parisian philosophy is much more indulgent, which is why
Polonius asks that Laertes be asked after.
.
In many ways this play can be related to the unfortunately common
occurrence of a a death in the family while one is away at school.
In the time at school, processes of thought change and Hamlet still
talks like a frat boy with R & G but will only use it as a weapon
of his trapping logic. Even Laertes has to come back from France
to deal with the death of Ophelia. Might I suggest that both Hamlet
and Laertes return to court and realize that those who are in charge
are either part of the problem or are perpetuating the problem.
.
All this relates to Wittenberg by virtue of the harsh reality
that contrasts the lusty appearance of Paris.
-----------------------------------------------------------
http://ise.uvic.ca/Library/SLT/ideas/protestantism.html
.
<<As Professor of Theology at the University of Wittenberg*, Luther
formulated the doctrine which became the basis of the Protestant
Reformation. He despaired that humans were incurably evil by nature
and that no amount of "good works" could possibly merit a person's
salvation. But in studying the Greek text of the Pauline Epistles
he found new inspiration, which led him to teach a doctrine
based on three revolutionary principles:
.
By faith alone
By scripture alone
By grace alone
-----------------------------------------------------------
Martin Luther University of Halle-Wittenberg
From Wikipedia
.
The Martin-Luther-University of Halle-Wittenberg is located in
the German city Halle, Saxony-Anhalt. The Leucorea foundation,
which belongs to the university is located in Wittenberg.
.
It was merged in 1817 from the University of Halle (founded 1694) and
the University of Wittenberg (founded 1502, closed in 1813 by
Napoleon).
.
It is named after the Protestant reformer Martin Luther, and is the
largest and oldest university in the German state of Saxony-Anhalt
with approximately 19,000 students.
.
The University became a centre of the Reformation under the influence
of Philipp Melanchthon and building on the works of Martin Luther.
Notable graduates include George Müller.
.
In the 17th and 18th century it became one major center of the German
Enlightenment. Christian Wolff was an import proponent of rationalism,
which was not at all an innocuous position at that time. He had major
influences on many German scholars i.e. Kant. Christian Thomasius was
at
the same time the first philosopher in Germany to hold his lectures not

in Latin, but German. He contributed to a rational program in
philosophy
but also tried to establish a more common-sense point of view, which
was
aimed against the unquestioned superiority of aristocracy and theology.
.
The first Speaker of the House of Representatives of the United States
of America, Frederick Muhlenberg, was a graduate. Notable faculty
members include Johann Matthias Hase.>>
---------------------------------------------------
Attendance At The University Of Wittenberg During The Reformation
http://europeanhistory.about.com/library/bldyk8.htm
.
<<The University of Wittenberg was founded in 1502 by Friedrich III,
the Elector of Saxony; during its first eight years this institution
attracted 835 students. On October 22nd 1512 a new doctor began
teaching
theology, partly because of an invitation from Friedrich: this was
Martin Luther, a man whose ideas would help utterly change the social,
political and religious landscape of Europe. Luther lectured at the
University for several years, and some of these teachings survive -
several in the form of a student's notes - providing evidence that
the theologian had already formed strong ideas, which
he was passing on to his pupils.
.
On October 31st 1517, Luther began a debate about his 95 Theses by
nailing them to the door of Wittenberg Cathedral. This was a common
method of inviting discussion, and not in itself unusual; however,
Luther's actions and opinions triggered a massive reforming process
known as the Reformation. Consequently, Wittenberg University became
famous as a home for Lutheran thought and belief. Although Luther was
not solely responsible for the ideas of the Reformation - he was part
of a larger body of theologians and thinkers - many of the other key
individuals also taught in the University. These people included
Andreas Bodenstein von Karlstadt and, after 1518, Philipp Melanchthon.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Leucorea University in Wittenberg" - Erwin Weber
http://helios.augustana.edu/~ew/des/illustrated-articles/su52.html
The Lutheran Journal, Vol. 68, #1, 1999
.
<<In 1502, the University of Wittenberg, located along the banks of the

Elbe River in north-central Germany, was established by the Elector of
Saxony, Frederick III, known as the Wise. When its doors were opened on

October 18, 1502, it was called Leucorea which is the Greek translation

of "Wittenberg" (leukos = white; oros = mountain). Apparently the early

settlers of Wittenberg such as the Flemish immigrants and the native
Wends named the settlement "Witten Berg". To the settlers from the
Netherlands, who were accustomed to seeing flat land,
saw in Wittenberg a modest hill of white sand.
.
The universities played an important role in the intellectual life of
Europe and the Reformation. The earliest universities, established by
the pope or emporer, were in Bologna (circa 1190), Paris (c.1208), and
Oxford (c. 1208). They were founded by the Pope or Emporer. By the
early
16th century, Europe had more than 50 active universities which were
founded by the prince of city government. Among them were Erfurt
(1379),
Heidelberg (1385), Cologne (1388), Leipzig (1409), Rostock (1419),
Greifswald (1456), Basel (1460), Ingolstadt (1472), Mainz (1476), T?n
(1477), Wittenberg (1502), and Frankfurt on the Oder River (1506).
.
During the first half of the 16th century, the Leucorea was the most
important university in all of Europe. Through it, the entire city of
Wittenberg received new life. Since the university needed classrooms
and student housing, the building industry blossomed. In addition,
Wittenberg attracted skilled craftsmen amd artisans. Even paper
manufacturers came to Wittenberg. But above all, famous professors,
doctors, and students came to Wittenberg. Among them were the
physician,
Dr. Martin Polich von Mellerstadt, who was the first president of the
Leucorea; the theologian Karlstadt; the Brothers Schurff, one a doctor
of medicine, the other a doctor of law; the painter Lucas Cranach;
Martin Luther and Philip Melanchthon. With the arrival of Luther
and Melanchthon who attracted hundreds of students,
Leucorea became the largest German university.
.
The Leucorea celebrated its 300th birthday in 1802 with magnificent
splendor filled with great expectation. Thereafter came its downfall.
During the occupation of Wittenberg by the French in 1813, Napoleon's
army occupied the university buildings and the classes were closed.
After Wittenberg became part of Prussia through the Congress of Vienna
in 1817, Wittenberg University, or the Leucorea, became part of the
University of Halle. The university buildings in Wittenberg were
converted into Prussian army barracks in the 19th century. Later they
were reconstructed into apartment buildings. Since 1933, the university

in Halle was named Martin- Luther-Universit?Halle-Wittenberg as a
reminder of the great Reformer and tradition in Wittenberg.
.
With the unification of Germany in 1990, the awareness of Germany's
intellectual tradition awakened anew. Thus the wish arose to convert
the
former university buildings in Wittenberg into academic facilities, so
that they may be used for teaching and research. This was to be
accomplished with the cooperation with the
Martin-Luther-University-Halle-Wittenberg. Thus the Leucorea Foundation

was established in Wittenberg. It is an integral part of the university

in Halle. Its goal is to convert each former university building for
academic purposes by the year 2002, the 500th anniversary of the
University in Wittenberg. In 1993, members of the Senate from the
university in Halle came to Wittenberg for the festive opening of the
Leucorea Foundation. Classes in the field of linguistics, philology,
culture and civilization, health providers, as well as Reformation
history and Lutheran doctrine were offered by the Leucorea.>>
----------------------------------------------------------
Wittenberg (Catholic Encyclopedia)
.
<<The city is in Prussian Saxony and was founded by Albert the Bear (d.

1170). He had conquered the surrounding territory from the Slavs and
replaced them by German colonists, especially by *Flemings* from the
lower Rhine. These colonists settled near the citadel fortified against

the Slavs on the boundary, and called the spot Wittenborg (white
mountain). Albert's son, Bernhard, became Duke of Saxony, and founded
the Ascanian line of he Dukes of Saxony. His grandson, Albert II
(1260-98), was the ancestor of the line of Saxe-Wittenberg whose
capital
was Wittenberg. In 1293 the city received its franchises. In 1356 the
electoral dignity was granted to the Dukes of Saxe- Wittenberg. When
the
line became extinct in 1422, the country fell to Frederick the Warlike
of Wettin and his descendants. During the reigns of Frederick the Wise
(1486-1525) and his two successors, Wittenberg became once more the
capital of the country. After the battle of Muhlberg (1547) the Emperor

Charles V entered Wittenberg as a conqueror and took the electoral
dignity from John Frederick. Wittenberg and the Electoral domain were
given to the Albertine line, who retained it until it was transferred
to
Prussia in 1815. In 1238 a Franciscan monastery was founded at
Wittenberg, and in 1365 a *monastery of the Hermits of St. AUGUSTINE*
There were two churches, the town-church and the castle-church.>>
.
<<The University of Wittenberg was founded by Frederick the Wise and
was
opened, 18 Oct., 1502. Professor Martin Polich of Leipzig was its first

rector. Funds were provided by the benefices, which belonged to the
collegiate chapter of All Saints connected with the castle-church,
being increased to eighty; the canons were to be the professors of the
university. The theological faculty became the most distinguished of
the four faculties. Luther was a member of it; he first lectured on
philosophy, and from 1509 he lectured also on theology. On 31 Oct.,
1517, he fastened his theses against indulgences on the castle-church.
As the students were chiefly from Northern Germany the university was
an
important factor in the spread of Protestantism. Wittenberg was one of
the first cities to accept Luther's doctrine. As early as 25 Oct.,
1521,
the Augustinians suppressed private Masses. From New Year, 1522, the
Lutheran service was used in the town-church and the communion given
under both kinds. In 1523 Bugenhagen became the first Lutheran pastor
of Wittenberg. During Luther's stay at the Wartburg, Carlstadt had
begun the Iconoclastic outbreak. Luther, however,
hastened back and restored order.
.
Among the associates of Luther at Wittenberg were: Melanchthon, who
in union with Luther reorganized the university on a Humanistic basis,
rejecting Scholasticism; Johannes Bugenhagen; Justus Jonas; Kaspar
Cruciger; Georg Major; and Matthias Flacius Illyricus. Although the
professors taught, and wrote learned and popular works, which were
circulated throughout the world by the printers Johann Grunenberg,
Melchior Lotter, and Hans Lufft, these two occupations were not the
limit of their activities. They also went into the different cities
to organize the Protestant system of congregations and schools; thus
Bugenhagen went to Brunswick, Hamburg, and Hildesheim; Amsdorft went to

Magdenburg; Jonas to Halle and Ratisbon. All these circumstances made
Wittenberg the chief school of Protestant theology.
.
From the beginning of the eighteenth century the fame of the
university
was a thing of the past. The theologians of Wittenberg, who clung to
the
old and antiquated methods, had no share in the Pietistic revival of
Protestantism. In 1815 the university was closed; in 1817 it was united

with the University of Halle, which since then has been called the
University of Halle-Wittenberg. The old university building is now a
barrack, while the Augusteum, which also served for university
purposes, has been used as a seminary for preachers since 1817.
Part of the old library is at Halle, and part is still kept
at the seminary for preachers.>>
-----------------------------------------------------------
From Wikipedia,
.
<<Philipp Melanchthon (born Philipp Schwartzerd) (February 16, 1497 -
April 19, 1560) was a German professor and theologian, a key leader of
the Lutheran Reformation, and a friend and associate of Martin Luther.
Melanchthon was born at Bretten, near Karlsruhe, where his father,
Georg Schwarzerd, was armorer to Count Palatine Philip.
.
In 1507 he was sent to the Latin school at Pforzheim, the rector of
which, Georg Simler of Wimpfen, introduced him to the study of the
Latin
and Greek poets and of the philosophy of Aristotle. But he was chiefly
influenced by his great-uncle, Johann Reuchlin, the great
representative
of humanism, who advised him to change his family name, Schwarzerd
(literally Black-earth), into the Greek equivalent Melanchthon.
.
Not yet thirteen years old, he entered in 1509 the University
of Heidelberg where he studied philosophy, rhetoric, and
astronomy/astrology, and was known as a good Greek scholar. Being
refused the degree of master in 1512 on account of his youth, he went
to Tübingen, where he pursued humanistic and philosophical studies,
but devoted himself also to the study of jurisprudence, mathematics,
astronomy/astrology, and even of medicine.
.
When, having completed his philosophical course, he had taken the
degree
of master in 1516, he began to study theology. Under the influence of
men like Reuchlin and Erasmus he became convinced that true
Christianity
was something quite different from scholastic theology as it was taught

at the university. But at that time he had not yet formed fixed
opinions
on theology, since later he often called Luther his spiritual father.
He became conventor (repetent) in the contubernium and had to instruct
younger scholars. He also lectured on oratory, on Virgil and Livy.
.
His first publications were an edition of *TERENCE* (1516) and
his Greek grammar (1518), but he had written previously the
preface to the Epistolae clarorum virorum of Reuchlin (1514).
.
The more strongly he felt the opposition of the scholastic party to
the reforms instituted by him at the University of Tübingen, the more
willingly he followed a call to Wittenberg as professor of Greek,
where he aroused great admiration by his inaugural De corrigendis
adolescentiae studiis. He lectured before five to six hundred students,

afterward to fifteen hundred. He was highly esteemed by Luther, whose
influence brought him to the study of Scripture, especially of Paul,
and
so to a more living knowledge of the Evangelical doctrine of salvation.
.
On account of the interest in theology shown in his lectures on Gospel
of Matthew and Epistle to the Romans, together with his investigations
into the doctrines of Paul, he was granted the degree of bachelor of
theology, and was transferred to the theological faculty. Soon he
was bound closer than ever to Wittenberg by his marriage to
*Katharina Krapp* , the mayor's daughter, a marriage contracted at
his friends' urgent request, and especially Luther's (Nov. 25, 1520).
.
The personal relation of the two great Reformers had to stand many a
test in those years, for Amsdorf and others tried to stir up Luther
against Melanchthon so that his stay at Wittenberg seemed to
Melanchthon at times almost unbearable, and he compared himself to
*Prometheus chained to the Caucasus* . About this time occurred the
notorious case of the second marriage of Philip of Hesse. Melanchthon,
who, as well as Luther, regarded this as an exceptional case was
present at the marriage, but urged Philip to keep the matter a secret.
The publication of the fact so affected Melanchthon,
then at Weimar, that he became exceedingly ill.
.
In Oct., 1540, Melanchthon took an important part in the religious
colloquy of Worms, where he defended clearly and firmly the doctrines
of
the Augsburg Confession. It is to be noted that Melanchthon used as a
basis of the discussion an edition of the Augsburg Confession which had

been revised by him (1540), and later was called Variata.

His views concerning the Lord's Supper, developed in union with Bucer
on the occasion of drawing a draft of reformation for the electorate
of Cologne (1543), aroused severe criticism on the part of Luther who
wished a clear statement as to "whether the true body and blood were
received physically." Luther gave free vent to his displeasure from the

pulpit, and Melanchthon expected to be banished from Wittenberg.
Further
outbreaks of his anger were warded off only by the efforts of
Chancellor
Bruck and the elector; but from that time Melanchthon had to suffer
from
the ill-temper of Luther, and was besides afflicted by various domestic

troubles. The death of Luther, on Feb. 18, 1546, affected him in the
most painful manner, not only because of the common course of their
lives and struggles, but also because of the great loss
that he believed was suffered by the Protestant Church.
.
Personal Appearance and Character
.
There have been preserved original portraits of Melanchthon by three
famous painters of his time-- by Holbein in various versions, one of
them in the Royal Gallery of Hanover, by Albrecht Dürer (made in 1526,

meant to convey a spiritual rather than physical likeness and said
to be eminently successful in doing so), and by Lucas Cranach.
.
Melanchthon was dwarfish, misshapen, and physically weak, although he
is said to have had a bright and sparkling eye, which kept its color
till the day of his death. He was never in perfectly sound health,
and managed to perform as much work as he did only by reason of the
extraordinary regularity of his habits and his great temperance. He set

no great value on money and possessions; his liberality and hospitality

were often misused in such a way that his old faithful Swabian
servant had sometimes difficulty in managing the household.
.
His domestic life was happy. He called his home "a little church of
God," always found peace there, and showed a tender solicitude for his
wife and children. To his great astonishment a French scholar found him

rocking the cradle with one hand, and holding a book in the other.
.
His noble soul showed itself also in his friendship for many of his
contemporaries; "there is nothing sweeter nor lovelier than mutual
intercourse with friends," he used to say. His most intimate friend
was Camerarius, whom he called the half of his soul. His extensive
correspondence was for him not only a duty, but a need and an
enjoyment.
His letters form a valuable commentary on his whole life, as he spoke
out his mind in them more unreservedly than he was wont to do in public

life. A peculiar example of his sacrificing friendship is furnished by
the fact that he wrote speeches and scientific treatises for others,
permitting them to use their own signature. But in the kindness of his
heart he was said to be ready to serve and assist not only his friends,

but everybody.
.
He was an enemy to *jealousy, ENVY* , slander, & sarcasm* . His whole
nature adapted him especially to the intercourse with scholars and men
of higher rank, while it was more difficult for him to deal with the
people of lower station. He never allowed himself or others to exceed
the bounds of nobility, honesty, and decency. He was very sincere in
the
judgment of his own person, acknowledging his faults even to opponents
like Flacius, and was open to the criticism even of such as stood far
below him. In his public career he sought not honor or fame, but
earnestly endeavored to serve the Church and the cause of truth.>>
------------------------------------------------------
. Philip Henslowe and the Admiral's Men
http://web.uvic.ca/shakespeare/Library/SLT/stage/henslowe.html
.
<<Philip Henslowe earned fame & fortune as a theatrical entrepreneur.
Henslowe was a shrewd businessman; as a young man, he married his
employer's widow [Henslowe's principal actor, Edward Alleyn, married
his wife's daughter, Joan Woodward on Oct. 22, 1592], and he acquired
considerable property in London, including some Bankside stews
(brothels*). Henslowe was influential enough to gain Court
appointments: in 1592 he became a Groom of the Chamber; in
1603 a Gentleman Sewer ("sewer" = "server") of the Chamber.>>
..........................................................
*Schwartzerd marries Krapp* (Sunday, November 25, 1520).
..........................................................
<<St. Catherine's Day (Nov.25) - the last popular holiday before
*ADVENT* & a day for weddings.>> - _The Annotated Mother Goose_
..........................................................
In 1605, Alleyn purchased the manor of Dulwichand, and in 1613, he
commenced building the College of God's Gift at Dulwich. Alleyn
intended
to provide an institution which would cater to the needs of the young
and the old, so the college had both a school for poor children and
almshouses to house the elderly poor. In 1619, Alleyn signed the deed
for the foundation of the College of God's Gift and for the remaining
seven years of his life, the foundation kept him quite busy.
In 1623, Alleyn's wife Joan died & five months later, Alleyn
married *CONSTANCE* Donne, daughter of the well-known John Donne.
Unfortunately, only three years later, Alleyn caught a fatal illness
while visiting his property in Yorkshire & died November 25, 1626.>>
-----------------------------------------------------
. King John Act 1, Scene 1
.
QUEEN ELINOR: What now, my son! have I not ever said
. How that ambitious *CONSTANCE* would not cease
. Till she had kindled France and all the world,
. Upon the right and party of her son?
.
. Act 2, Scene 1
.
KING PHILIP: Now, citizens of Angiers, ope your gates,
. Let in that amity which you have made;
. For at Saint Mary's chapel presently
. The rites of marriage shall be solemnized.
. Is not the *Lady CONSTANCE* in this troop?
.
KING JOHN: Call the *Lady CONSTANCE*;
. Some speedy messenger bid her repair
. To our solemnity: I trust we shall,
. If not fill up the measure of her will,
. Yet in some measure satisfy her so
. That we shall stop her exclamation.
.
. Act 3, Scene 1
.
AUSTRIA: *Lady CONSTANCE*, peace!
.
BLANCH: The *Lady CONSTANCE* speaks not from her faith,
. But from her need.
.
. Act 3, Scene 4
.
KING PHILIP: Patience, good lady! comfort, gentle *CONSTANCE*!
.
*CONSTANCE* : I am not mad: this hair I tear is mine;
. My name is *CONSTANCE*; I was Geffrey's wife;
. Young Arthur is my son, and he is lost:
. I am not mad: I would to heaven I were!
.
. Act 4, Scene 2
.
Messenger: My liege, her ear
. Is stopp'd with dust; the first of April died
. Your noble mother: and, as I hear, my lord,
. The *Lady CONSTANCE* in a frenzy died
. Three days before: but this from rumour's tongue
. I idly heard; if true or false I know not.
---------------------------------------------------------
William Shakspere's son-in-law John *HALL* died at New Place
on 25 November 1635 and was interred in the chancel. His arms
(three *TALBOT* heads erased), are impaled with Shakespeare's.>>
. -- _Shakespeare a Life_,p. 398, Park Honan.
.
<<John Dee wrote in his diary entry for November 25th, 1595:
"the news that Sir *EDWARD (TALBOT) KelLEY* was slayne.">>
......................................................
Wed. NOVEmber 25, 1626(G) Actor *EDWARD alLEYn* dies
Wed. NOVEmber 25, 1562 Butcher son-in-law Lope de Vega born
Wed. NOVEmber 25, 1635 Butcher son-in-law John *HALL* dies
Wed. NOVEmber 25, 1612 WILL of Elizabeth, Countess of Oxford,
------------------------------­------------------------------
__ *HEERE LYETH YE BODY OF IOHN HALL
__ *GENT : HEE [MAR] : SVSANNA YE DAVGH
__ * & coheire
__ *TER OF WILL : *SHAKESPEARE, GENT* . HEE
__ *DECEASED NOVE. 25 An 1635, AGED 60.
-------------------------------------------------------------
. King Richard III Act 1, Scene 2
.
GLOUCESTER: Those eyes of thine from mine have drawn *SALT* tears,
. To hear the piteous moan that RUTLAND made
. When black-faced CLIFFORD SHOOK his sword at him;
------------------------------------------------------------------
<<*HALLe an der Saale* is the largest town in the German Bundesland of
Saxony-Anhalt. It lies in the southern part of the state, on the river
Saale. The name *HALLe* derives from the Celtic word for *SALT* , like
that of its namesake *HALLe* in Westphalia, *HALLein & HALLstatt* in
Austria and Schwäbisch Hall in Germany; while the name of the river
Saale contains the Germanic root for *SALT* . Salt-making has taken
place in *HALLe* since at least the Bronze age. The town was first
mentioned in 806. It became a part of the bishopric principality of
Magdeburg in the 10th century and remained so until 1680, when
Brandenburg annexed it together with Magdeburg. The famous Baroque
composer Georg Friedrich Händel was born in *HALLe* . Today there is
an annual Händel-festival. Georg CANTORr worked as a professor at
the university of *HALLe*. A university was founded in *HALLe* in
1694. It is now combined with the University of Wittenberg and
is called Martin Luther University of *HALLe-Wittenberg* .
*HALLe* was a center of German Pietism and played an important role
in establishing the Lutheran church in North America, when Henry
Muhlenberg and others were sent as missionaries to Pennsylvania.
Henry Muhlenberg's son, Frederick Muhlenberg, the first Speaker of
the House of Representatives, was a graduate of *HALLe* University.>>
-----------------------------------------------------------
__ *HERE LYETH YE BODY OF SVSANNA
__ *WIFE TO IOHN HALL, GENT: & DAVGH
__ *TER OF WILLIAM *SHAKESPEARE, GENT* :
.
________ *SHAKESPEARE, GENT*
________ *GATEKEEPER'S NASH*
.
John *HALL* 's son-in-law *THOMAS NASH* died in 1647 & was
buried in the 'Tombe' to *the immediate right of W.Shakspere*
.
. 1647, Apr. 5. B. *THOMAS NASH, GENT*
.
[His stone, to the right of Shakespeare's in the chancel, has
under the arms of Nash (on a chevron between three ravens' heads
erased a pellet between four crosses crosslet), quartered
with Bulstrode, & impaling Hall quartered with Shakespeare:
.
__ *HEERE RESTETH YE BODY OF THOMAS
__ *NASHE, ESQ. HE [MAR.] ELIZABETH, THE
__ *DAVG: & HEIRE OF IOHN HALLE, GENT.
.
*THOMAS NASH* & Elizabeth *HALL* had lived
*immediately adjacent to W.Shakspere's New Place*
-----------------------------------------------------------
. Pericles Prince of Tyre Act 2, Scene 3
.
SIMONIDES: *He's but a COUNTRY GENTLEMAN*
------------------------------­------------------------------­-
_An Epistle to the *GENTLEMEN* Students of the Two UnIVERSities_
________ by *THOMAS NASH* (1589)
.
"'It is a common practice nowadays, amongst a sort of shifting
companions that run through *EVERy art* and thrive by none,
to leave the trade of *NOVERINT* whereto they were born,
land busy themselves with *the endeavors of art* , that could
scarce Latinize their neck-verse if they should have need;
yet English Seneca, read by *CANDLE* light, yields many
good sentences, as blood is a beggar, and so forth;
and if you entreat him fair in a frosty morning,
.
. *he WILL afFORD you whole HAMLETS* ;
. I should say whole handfuls of tragical speeches.
.
But, O grief! Tempus edax rerum'what is it that will last always'
----------------------------------------------------------
<<In medieval England, most weddings were held on *November 25*
St. Catherine's Day. The festivities usually ended with a strange
ritual. A *CANDLE*stick with a lighted *CANDLE* was placed on
the floor and everyone took turns jumping over it. If you didn't
extinguish the flame, you'd have good luck for a full year.>>
.
. Jack be *NIMBLE*
. Jack be quick,
. Jack jump over
. The *CANDLE*STICK
.
. Do I *ENVY* those Jacks that *NIMBLE* leap,
. To kiss the tender inward of thy hand,
. Whilst my poor lips which should that harvest reap,
. At the woods boldness by thee blushing stand.
------------------------------------------------------
. Philip Henslowe and the Admiral's Men
http://web.uvic.ca/shakespeare/Library/SLT/stage/henslowe.html
.
<<Philip Henslowe's Diary, kept from 1592
to 1603, contains valuable information about the Elizabethan stage. The
diary includes lists of performances and takings,records of
transactions
with players & playwrights and information about costumes and props:
.
[Phaethon, a play now lost, was written by Thomas Dekker,
and paid for by Henslowe in 1597.] The inventory of all the
properties for my Lord Admiral's Men, the 10 of March 1598:
.
Item, i rock, i cage, i tomb, i Hell mouth... i bedstead.
Item, viii lances, i pair of stairs for Phaethon*.
Item, i globe, & i golden sceptre; iii clubs
Item, i golden fleece, ii racquets, i bay tree.
Item, i lion's skin, i bear's skin; Phaethon's
limbs, & Phaethon's chariot, & Argus's head.
Item, Iris's head, & rainbow; i little altar. . .
. i ghost's gown; i crown with a sun*.
.
On his death, the Henslowe's Diary passed to Alleyn.>>
---------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
gangleri
2006-09-26 01:51:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Art Neuendorffer
.
Post by Chess One
for an author who can use Titania for Britannia, and Oberon for
Albion, it is not a great stretch to read in Wittenberg, Würtemberg -
a city with a very famous university, indeed the same as hosted
Andreae [or some say Valentin Andreae] in 1601[...]
-----------------------------------------------------------
.
<<Württemberg was once a Duchy; then a Kingdom; now, with neighbouring
Baden, a Land - never, I think, a city. Its ancient university is at
Tübingen, and its present "capital" is Stuttgart. Far-off Wittenberg
would have been at least as well known in Protestant England as
Württemberg, and is indeed a city. Its university had been founded
only
a couple of generations before Shakespeare's time, but was certainly
"very famous" as the home of the reformers Luther and Melanchthon and
the scene of Luther's perhaps apocryphal nailing of his 95 theses to
the church door. Neither place is, of course, anywhere near Denmark. >>
-----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.camping-lcbw.de/grafiken/baden-wuerttemberg.jpg
http://www.dhm.de/lemo/objekte/karten/D1920/wuerttemberg.gif
.
http://www.plz-postleitzahl.de/land.sachsen-anhalt/lutherstadt_wittenberg/karte-
Lutherstadt%20Wittenberg.gif
http://img.meinestadt.de/pix/kk/kreis-wittenberg.png
.
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/wittenberg-home.html
.
http://www.boisestate.edu/courses/reformation/maps/citymaps/wittenberg.jpg
-----------------------------------------------------------
<<Hamlet was away studying at Wittenberg, the renowned
university located near Berlin and founded in 1502.>>
----------------------------------------------------------
The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 12.0213
-------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wednesday, 31 Jan 2001
Subject: 12.0213 Re: Wittenberg and Paris
Comment: Re: SHK 12.0213 Re: Wittenberg and Paris
.
.
About Hamlet - Wittenberg and Laertes - Paris... I have heard it
said that the connection may have something to do with Paris being
a particularly Catholic bastion and Wittenberg being a hotbed of
Lutheranism/Calvinism, the latter being particularly interesting
in light of Hamlet's questioning of all of his religious/spiritual
assumptions. Off in the wilds of Oregon and far from my usual reference
material, I cannot seem to remember which famous person it was who did
most of his work from Wittenberg! (It may have been one of the early
scientists).
.
Aimee, it was the bastion of philosophy, and if you recall, Marlowe's
Faustus studied there. It was also to the door of the church at
Wittenberg that Martin Luther nailed the 95 Theses. Many other famous
persons did their work there, but I suspect that it is to these two
things that Shakespeare is most likely alluding, in this context.
Luther
questioned the status quo, the received epistemology -- as Hamlet does;
Faustus was damned by "knowledge for its own sake," for asking too many
questions, for wanting to know more than he needed to know to function
in the world (to be "lowly wise," as Milton's Raphael calls it). Hamlet
is too, in a sense: "for conscience doth make cowards of us all . . .
."
.
I doubt very much that Shakespeare was exploring anything doctrinally
controversial between the Protestants and Catholics in this instance.
That the Ghost comes from Purgatory is significant, in that regard,
except that he can't come from anywhere else: if he is in Heaven, he
wouldn't be "doomed to walk the earth," and if he is in Hell ("be ye
a spirit damned . . .") he will not gain Hamlet's trust at all. (The
young prince is dubious enough about his "father's" pedigree as it is;
I think it is only Horatio's ability to see the Ghost
that leads him to accept it as Old Hamlet at all.)
-------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tuesday, 30 Jan 2001 14:35:09 -0800
Subject: 12.0213 Re: Wittenberg and Paris
Comment: Re: SHK 12.0213 Re: Wittenberg and Paris
.
Martin Luther did work in Wittenberg, and Marlowe's Dr. Faustus is set
in Wittenberg where the legend of Faustus originated. Aside from being
willing to do word play with anyone, Hamlet's Wittenberg education is
best exemplified in his "What a piece of work is man" speech.
Parisian philosophy is much more indulgent, which is why
Polonius asks that Laertes be asked after.
.
In many ways this play can be related to the unfortunately common
occurrence of a a death in the family while one is away at school.
In the time at school, processes of thought change and Hamlet still
talks like a frat boy with R & G but will only use it as a weapon
of his trapping logic. Even Laertes has to come back from France
to deal with the death of Ophelia. Might I suggest that both Hamlet
and Laertes return to court and realize that those who are in charge
are either part of the problem or are perpetuating the problem.
.
All this relates to Wittenberg by virtue of the harsh reality
that contrasts the lusty appearance of Paris.
-----------------------------------------------------------
http://ise.uvic.ca/Library/SLT/ideas/protestantism.html
.
<<As Professor of Theology at the University of Wittenberg*, Luther
formulated the doctrine which became the basis of the Protestant
Reformation. He despaired that humans were incurably evil by nature
and that no amount of "good works" could possibly merit a person's
salvation. But in studying the Greek text of the Pauline Epistles
he found new inspiration, which led him to teach a doctrine
.
By faith alone
By scripture alone
By grace alone
-----------------------------------------------------------
Martin Luther University of Halle-Wittenberg
From Wikipedia
.
The Martin-Luther-University of Halle-Wittenberg is located in
the German city Halle, Saxony-Anhalt. The Leucorea foundation,
which belongs to the university is located in Wittenberg.
.
It was merged in 1817 from the University of Halle (founded 1694) and
the University of Wittenberg (founded 1502, closed in 1813 by
Napoleon).
.
It is named after the Protestant reformer Martin Luther, and is the
largest and oldest university in the German state of Saxony-Anhalt
with approximately 19,000 students.
.
The University became a centre of the Reformation under the influence
of Philipp Melanchthon and building on the works of Martin Luther.
Notable graduates include George Müller.
.
In the 17th and 18th century it became one major center of the German
Enlightenment. Christian Wolff was an import proponent of rationalism,
which was not at all an innocuous position at that time. He had major
influences on many German scholars i.e. Kant. Christian Thomasius was
at
the same time the first philosopher in Germany to hold his lectures not
in Latin, but German. He contributed to a rational program in
philosophy
but also tried to establish a more common-sense point of view, which
was
aimed against the unquestioned superiority of aristocracy and theology.
.
The first Speaker of the House of Representatives of the United States
of America, Frederick Muhlenberg, was a graduate. Notable faculty
members include Johann Matthias Hase.>>
---------------------------------------------------
Attendance At The University Of Wittenberg During The Reformation
http://europeanhistory.about.com/library/bldyk8.htm
.
<<The University of Wittenberg was founded in 1502 by Friedrich III,
the Elector of Saxony; during its first eight years this institution
attracted 835 students. On October 22nd 1512 a new doctor began
teaching
theology, partly because of an invitation from Friedrich: this was
Martin Luther, a man whose ideas would help utterly change the social,
political and religious landscape of Europe. Luther lectured at the
University for several years, and some of these teachings survive -
several in the form of a student's notes - providing evidence that
the theologian had already formed strong ideas, which
he was passing on to his pupils.
.
On October 31st 1517, Luther began a debate about his 95 Theses by
nailing them to the door of Wittenberg Cathedral. This was a common
method of inviting discussion, and not in itself unusual; however,
Luther's actions and opinions triggered a massive reforming process
known as the Reformation. Consequently, Wittenberg University became
famous as a home for Lutheran thought and belief. Although Luther was
not solely responsible for the ideas of the Reformation - he was part
of a larger body of theologians and thinkers - many of the other key
individuals also taught in the University. These people included
Andreas Bodenstein von Karlstadt and, after 1518, Philipp Melanchthon.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Leucorea University in Wittenberg" - Erwin Weber
http://helios.augustana.edu/~ew/des/illustrated-articles/su52.html
The Lutheran Journal, Vol. 68, #1, 1999
.
<<In 1502, the University of Wittenberg, located along the banks of the
Elbe River in north-central Germany, was established by the Elector of
Saxony, Frederick III, known as the Wise. When its doors were opened on
October 18, 1502, it was called Leucorea which is the Greek translation
of "Wittenberg" (leukos = white; oros = mountain). Apparently the early
settlers of Wittenberg such as the Flemish immigrants and the native
Wends named the settlement "Witten Berg". To the settlers from the
Netherlands, who were accustomed to seeing flat land,
saw in Wittenberg a modest hill of white sand.
.
The universities played an important role in the intellectual life of
Europe and the Reformation. The earliest universities, established by
the pope or emporer, were in Bologna (circa 1190), Paris (c.1208), and
Oxford (c. 1208). They were founded by the Pope or Emporer. By the
early
16th century, Europe had more than 50 active universities which were
founded by the prince of city government. Among them were Erfurt
(1379),
Heidelberg (1385), Cologne (1388), Leipzig (1409), Rostock (1419),
Greifswald (1456), Basel (1460), Ingolstadt (1472), Mainz (1476), T?n
(1477), Wittenberg (1502), and Frankfurt on the Oder River (1506).
.
During the first half of the 16th century, the Leucorea was the most
important university in all of Europe. Through it, the entire city of
Wittenberg received new life. Since the university needed classrooms
and student housing, the building industry blossomed. In addition,
Wittenberg attracted skilled craftsmen amd artisans. Even paper
manufacturers came to Wittenberg. But above all, famous professors,
doctors, and students came to Wittenberg. Among them were the
physician,
Dr. Martin Polich von Mellerstadt, who was the first president of the
Leucorea; the theologian Karlstadt; the Brothers Schurff, one a doctor
of medicine, the other a doctor of law; the painter Lucas Cranach;
Martin Luther and Philip Melanchthon. With the arrival of Luther
and Melanchthon who attracted hundreds of students,
Leucorea became the largest German university.
.
The Leucorea celebrated its 300th birthday in 1802 with magnificent
splendor filled with great expectation. Thereafter came its downfall.
During the occupation of Wittenberg by the French in 1813, Napoleon's
army occupied the university buildings and the classes were closed.
After Wittenberg became part of Prussia through the Congress of Vienna
in 1817, Wittenberg University, or the Leucorea, became part of the
University of Halle. The university buildings in Wittenberg were
converted into Prussian army barracks in the 19th century. Later they
were reconstructed into apartment buildings. Since 1933, the university
in Halle was named Martin- Luther-Universit?Halle-Wittenberg as a
reminder of the great Reformer and tradition in Wittenberg.
.
With the unification of Germany in 1990, the awareness of Germany's
intellectual tradition awakened anew. Thus the wish arose to convert
the
former university buildings in Wittenberg into academic facilities, so
that they may be used for teaching and research. This was to be
accomplished with the cooperation with the
Martin-Luther-University-Halle-Wittenberg. Thus the Leucorea Foundation
was established in Wittenberg. It is an integral part of the university
in Halle. Its goal is to convert each former university building for
academic purposes by the year 2002, the 500th anniversary of the
University in Wittenberg. In 1993, members of the Senate from the
university in Halle came to Wittenberg for the festive opening of the
Leucorea Foundation. Classes in the field of linguistics, philology,
culture and civilization, health providers, as well as Reformation
history and Lutheran doctrine were offered by the Leucorea.>>
----------------------------------------------------------
Wittenberg (Catholic Encyclopedia)
.
<<The city is in Prussian Saxony and was founded by Albert the Bear (d.
1170). He had conquered the surrounding territory from the Slavs and
replaced them by German colonists, especially by *Flemings* from the
lower Rhine. These colonists settled near the citadel fortified against
the Slavs on the boundary, and called the spot Wittenborg (white
mountain). Albert's son, Bernhard, became Duke of Saxony, and founded
the Ascanian line of he Dukes of Saxony. His grandson, Albert II
(1260-98), was the ancestor of the line of Saxe-Wittenberg whose
capital
was Wittenberg. In 1293 the city received its franchises. In 1356 the
electoral dignity was granted to the Dukes of Saxe- Wittenberg. When
the
line became extinct in 1422, the country fell to Frederick the Warlike
of Wettin and his descendants. During the reigns of Frederick the Wise
(1486-1525) and his two successors, Wittenberg became once more the
capital of the country. After the battle of Muhlberg (1547) the Emperor
Charles V entered Wittenberg as a conqueror and took the electoral
dignity from John Frederick. Wittenberg and the Electoral domain were
given to the Albertine line, who retained it until it was transferred
to
Prussia in 1815. In 1238 a Franciscan monastery was founded at
Wittenberg, and in 1365 a *monastery of the Hermits of St. AUGUSTINE*
There were two churches, the town-church and the castle-church.>>
.
<<The University of Wittenberg was founded by Frederick the Wise and
was
opened, 18 Oct., 1502. Professor Martin Polich of Leipzig was its first
rector. Funds were provided by the benefices, which belonged to the
collegiate chapter of All Saints connected with the castle-church,
being increased to eighty; the canons were to be the professors of the
university. The theological faculty became the most distinguished of
the four faculties. Luther was a member of it; he first lectured on
philosophy, and from 1509 he lectured also on theology. On 31 Oct.,
1517, he fastened his theses against indulgences on the castle-church.
As the students were chiefly from Northern Germany the university was
an
important factor in the spread of Protestantism. Wittenberg was one of
the first cities to accept Luther's doctrine. As early as 25 Oct.,
1521,
the Augustinians suppressed private Masses. From New Year, 1522, the
Lutheran service was used in the town-church and the communion given
under both kinds. In 1523 Bugenhagen became the first Lutheran pastor
of Wittenberg. During Luther's stay at the Wartburg, Carlstadt had
begun the Iconoclastic outbreak. Luther, however,
hastened back and restored order.
.
Among the associates of Luther at Wittenberg were: Melanchthon, who
in union with Luther reorganized the university on a Humanistic basis,
rejecting Scholasticism; Johannes Bugenhagen; Justus Jonas; Kaspar
Cruciger; Georg Major; and Matthias Flacius Illyricus. Although the
professors taught, and wrote learned and popular works, which were
circulated throughout the world by the printers Johann Grunenberg,
Melchior Lotter, and Hans Lufft, these two occupations were not the
limit of their activities. They also went into the different cities
to organize the Protestant system of congregations and schools; thus
Bugenhagen went to Brunswick, Hamburg, and Hildesheim; Amsdorft went to
Magdenburg; Jonas to Halle and Ratisbon. All these circumstances made
Wittenberg the chief school of Protestant theology.
.
From the beginning of the eighteenth century the fame of the
university
was a thing of the past. The theologians of Wittenberg, who clung to
the
old and antiquated methods, had no share in the Pietistic revival of
Protestantism. In 1815 the university was closed; in 1817 it was united
with the University of Halle, which since then has been called the
University of Halle-Wittenberg. The old university building is now a
barrack, while the Augusteum, which also served for university
purposes, has been used as a seminary for preachers since 1817.
Part of the old library is at Halle, and part is still kept
at the seminary for preachers.>>
-----------------------------------------------------------
From Wikipedia,
.
<<Philipp Melanchthon (born Philipp Schwartzerd) (February 16, 1497 -
April 19, 1560) was a German professor and theologian, a key leader of
the Lutheran Reformation, and a friend and associate of Martin Luther.
Melanchthon was born at Bretten, near Karlsruhe, where his father,
Georg Schwarzerd, was armorer to Count Palatine Philip.
.
In 1507 he was sent to the Latin school at Pforzheim, the rector of
which, Georg Simler of Wimpfen, introduced him to the study of the
Latin
and Greek poets and of the philosophy of Aristotle. But he was chiefly
influenced by his great-uncle, Johann Reuchlin, the great
representative
of humanism, who advised him to change his family name, Schwarzerd
(literally Black-earth), into the Greek equivalent Melanchthon.
.
Not yet thirteen years old, he entered in 1509 the University
of Heidelberg where he studied philosophy, rhetoric, and
astronomy/astrology, and was known as a good Greek scholar. Being
refused the degree of master in 1512 on account of his youth, he went
to Tübingen, where he pursued humanistic and philosophical studies,
but devoted himself also to the study of jurisprudence, mathematics,
astronomy/astrology, and even of medicine.
.
When, having completed his philosophical course, he had taken the
degree
of master in 1516, he began to study theology. Under the influence of
men like Reuchlin and Erasmus he became convinced that true
Christianity
was something quite different from scholastic theology as it was taught
at the university. But at that time he had not yet formed fixed
opinions
on theology, since later he often called Luther his spiritual father.
He became conventor (repetent) in the contubernium and had to instruct
younger scholars. He also lectured on oratory, on Virgil and Livy.
.
His first publications were an edition of *TERENCE* (1516) and
his Greek grammar (1518), but he had written previously the
preface to the Epistolae clarorum virorum of Reuchlin (1514).
.
The more strongly he felt the opposition of the scholastic party to
the reforms instituted by him at the University of Tübingen, the more
willingly he followed a call to Wittenberg as professor of Greek,
where he aroused great admiration by his inaugural De corrigendis
adolescentiae studiis. He lectured before five to six hundred students,
afterward to fifteen hundred. He was highly esteemed by Luther, whose
influence brought him to the study of Scripture, especially of Paul,
and
so to a more living knowledge of the Evangelical doctrine of salvation.
.
On account of the interest in theology shown in his lectures on Gospel
of Matthew and Epistle to the Romans, together with his investigations
into the doctrines of Paul, he was granted the degree of bachelor of
theology, and was transferred to the theological faculty. Soon he
was bound closer than ever to Wittenberg by his marriage to
*Katharina Krapp* , the mayor's daughter, a marriage contracted at
his friends' urgent request, and especially Luther's (Nov. 25, 1520).
.
The personal relation of the two great Reformers had to stand many a
test in those years, for Amsdorf and others tried to stir up Luther
against Melanchthon so that his stay at Wittenberg seemed to
Melanchthon at times almost unbearable, and he compared himself to
*Prometheus chained to the Caucasus* . About this time occurred the
notorious case of the second marriage of Philip of Hesse. Melanchthon,
who, as well as Luther, regarded this as an exceptional case was
present at the marriage, but urged Philip to keep the matter a secret.
The publication of the fact so affected Melanchthon,
then at Weimar, that he became exceedingly ill.
.
In Oct., 1540, Melanchthon took an important part in the religious
colloquy of Worms, where he defended clearly and firmly the doctrines
of
the Augsburg Confession. It is to be noted that Melanchthon used as a
basis of the discussion an edition of the Augsburg Confession which had
been revised by him (1540), and later was called Variata.
His views concerning the Lord's Supper, developed in union with Bucer
on the occasion of drawing a draft of reformation for the electorate
of Cologne (1543), aroused severe criticism on the part of Luther who
wished a clear statement as to "whether the true body and blood were
received physically." Luther gave free vent to his displeasure from the
pulpit, and Melanchthon expected to be banished from Wittenberg.
Further
outbreaks of his anger were warded off only by the efforts of
Chancellor
Bruck and the elector; but from that time Melanchthon had to suffer
from
the ill-temper of Luther, and was besides afflicted by various domestic
troubles. The death of Luther, on Feb. 18, 1546, affected him in the
most painful manner, not only because of the common course of their
lives and struggles, but also because of the great loss
that he believed was suffered by the Protestant Church.
.
Personal Appearance and Character
.
There have been preserved original portraits of Melanchthon by three
famous painters of his time-- by Holbein in various versions, one of
them in the Royal Gallery of Hanover, by Albrecht Dürer (made in 1526,
meant to convey a spiritual rather than physical likeness and said
to be eminently successful in doing so), and by Lucas Cranach.
.
Melanchthon was dwarfish, misshapen, and physically weak, although he
is said to have had a bright and sparkling eye, which kept its color
till the day of his death. He was never in perfectly sound health,
and managed to perform as much work as he did only by reason of the
extraordinary regularity of his habits and his great temperance. He set
no great value on money and possessions; his liberality and hospitality
were often misused in such a way that his old faithful Swabian
servant had sometimes difficulty in managing the household.
.
His domestic life was happy. He called his home "a little church of
God," always found peace there, and showed a tender solicitude for his
wife and children. To his great astonishment a French scholar found him
rocking the cradle with one hand, and holding a book in the other.
.
His noble soul showed itself also in his friendship for many of his
contemporaries; "there is nothing sweeter nor lovelier than mutual
intercourse with friends," he used to say. His most intimate friend
was Camerarius, whom he called the half of his soul. His extensive
correspondence was for him not only a duty, but a need and an
enjoyment.
His letters form a valuable commentary on his whole life, as he spoke
out his mind in them more unreservedly than he was wont to do in public
life. A peculiar example of his sacrificing friendship is furnished by
the fact that he wrote speeches and scientific treatises for others,
permitting them to use their own signature. But in the kindness of his
heart he was said to be ready to serve and assist not only his friends,
but everybody.
.
He was an enemy to *jealousy, ENVY* , slander, & sarcasm* . His whole
nature adapted him especially to the intercourse with scholars and men
of higher rank, while it was more difficult for him to deal with the
people of lower station. He never allowed himself or others to exceed
the bounds of nobility, honesty, and decency. He was very sincere in
the
judgment of his own person, acknowledging his faults even to opponents
like Flacius, and was open to the criticism even of such as stood far
below him. In his public career he sought not honor or fame, but
earnestly endeavored to serve the Church and the cause of truth.>>
------------------------------------------------------
. Philip Henslowe and the Admiral's Men
http://web.uvic.ca/shakespeare/Library/SLT/stage/henslowe.html
.
<<Philip Henslowe earned fame & fortune as a theatrical entrepreneur.
Henslowe was a shrewd businessman; as a young man, he married his
employer's widow [Henslowe's principal actor, Edward Alleyn, married
his wife's daughter, Joan Woodward on Oct. 22, 1592], and he acquired
considerable property in London, including some Bankside stews
(brothels*). Henslowe was influential enough to gain Court
appointments: in 1592 he became a Groom of the Chamber; in
1603 a Gentleman Sewer ("sewer" = "server") of the Chamber.>>
..........................................................
*Schwartzerd marries Krapp* (Sunday, November 25, 1520).
..........................................................
<<St. Catherine's Day (Nov.25) - the last popular holiday before
*ADVENT* & a day for weddings.>> - _The Annotated Mother Goose_
..........................................................
In 1605, Alleyn purchased the manor of Dulwichand, and in 1613, he
commenced building the College of God's Gift at Dulwich. Alleyn
intended
to provide an institution which would cater to the needs of the young
and the old, so the college had both a school for poor children and
almshouses to house the elderly poor. In 1619, Alleyn signed the deed
for the foundation of the College of God's Gift and for the remaining
seven years of his life, the foundation kept him quite busy.
In 1623, Alleyn's wife Joan died & five months later, Alleyn
married *CONSTANCE* Donne, daughter of the well-known John Donne.
Unfortunately, only three years later, Alleyn caught a fatal illness
while visiting his property in Yorkshire & died November 25, 1626.>>
-----------------------------------------------------
. King John Act 1, Scene 1
.
QUEEN ELINOR: What now, my son! have I not ever said
. How that ambitious *CONSTANCE* would not cease
. Till she had kindled France and all the world,
. Upon the right and party of her son?
.
. Act 2, Scene 1
.
KING PHILIP: Now, citizens of Angiers, ope your gates,
. Let in that amity which you have made;
. For at Saint Mary's chapel presently
. The rites of marriage shall be solemnized.
. Is not the *Lady CONSTANCE* in this troop?
.
KING JOHN: Call the *Lady CONSTANCE*;
. Some speedy messenger bid her repair
. To our solemnity: I trust we shall,
. If not fill up the measure of her will,
. Yet in some measure satisfy her so
. That we shall stop her exclamation.
.
. Act 3, Scene 1
.
AUSTRIA: *Lady CONSTANCE*, peace!
.
BLANCH: The *Lady CONSTANCE* speaks not from her faith,
. But from her need.
.
. Act 3, Scene 4
.
KING PHILIP: Patience, good lady! comfort, gentle *CONSTANCE*!
.
*CONSTANCE* : I am not mad: this hair I tear is mine;
. My name is *CONSTANCE*; I was Geffrey's wife;
. I am not mad: I would to heaven I were!
.
. Act 4, Scene 2
.
Messenger: My liege, her ear
. Is stopp'd with dust; the first of April died
. Your noble mother: and, as I hear, my lord,
. The *Lady CONSTANCE* in a frenzy died
. Three days before: but this from rumour's tongue
. I idly heard; if true or false I know not.
---------------------------------------------------------
William Shakspere's son-in-law John *HALL* died at New Place
on 25 November 1635 and was interred in the chancel. His arms
(three *TALBOT* heads erased), are impaled with Shakespeare's.>>
. -- _Shakespeare a Life_,p. 398, Park Honan.
.
"the news that Sir *EDWARD (TALBOT) KelLEY* was slayne.">>
......................................................
Wed. NOVEmber 25, 1626(G) Actor *EDWARD alLEYn* dies
Wed. NOVEmber 25, 1562 Butcher son-in-law Lope de Vega born
Wed. NOVEmber 25, 1635 Butcher son-in-law John *HALL* dies
Wed. NOVEmber 25, 1612 WILL of Elizabeth, Countess of Oxford,
------------------------------­------------------------------
__ *HEERE LYETH YE BODY OF IOHN HALL
__ *GENT : HEE [MAR] : SVSANNA YE DAVGH
__ * & coheire
__ *TER OF WILL : *SHAKESPEARE, GENT* . HEE
__ *DECEASED NOVE. 25 An 1635, AGED 60.
-------------------------------------------------------------
. King Richard III Act 1, Scene 2
.
GLOUCESTER: Those eyes of thine from mine have drawn *SALT* tears,
. To hear the piteous moan that RUTLAND made
. When black-faced CLIFFORD SHOOK his sword at him;
------------------------------------------------------------------
<<*HALLe an der Saale* is the largest town in the German Bundesland of
Saxony-Anhalt. It lies in the southern part of the state, on the river
Saale. The name *HALLe* derives from the Celtic word for *SALT* , like
that of its namesake *HALLe* in Westphalia, *HALLein & HALLstatt* in
Austria and Schwäbisch Hall in Germany; while the name of the river
Saale contains the Germanic root for *SALT* . Salt-making has taken
place in *HALLe* since at least the Bronze age. The town was first
mentioned in 806. It became a part of the bishopric principality of
Magdeburg in the 10th century and remained so until 1680, when
Brandenburg annexed it together with Magdeburg. The famous Baroque
composer Georg Friedrich Händel was born in *HALLe* . Today there is
an annual Händel-festival. Georg CANTORr worked as a professor at
the university of *HALLe*. A university was founded in *HALLe* in
1694. It is now combined with the University of Wittenberg and
is called Martin Luther University of *HALLe-Wittenberg* .
*HALLe* was a center of German Pietism and played an important role
in establishing the Lutheran church in North America, when Henry
Muhlenberg and others were sent as missionaries to Pennsylvania.
Henry Muhlenberg's son, Frederick Muhlenberg, the first Speaker of
the House of Representatives, was a graduate of *HALLe* University.>>
-----------------------------------------------------------
__ *HERE LYETH YE BODY OF SVSANNA
__ *WIFE TO IOHN HALL, GENT: & DAVGH
.
________ *SHAKESPEARE, GENT*
________ *GATEKEEPER'S NASH*
.
John *HALL* 's son-in-law *THOMAS NASH* died in 1647 & was
buried in the 'Tombe' to *the immediate right of W.Shakspere*
.
. 1647, Apr. 5. B. *THOMAS NASH, GENT*
.
[His stone, to the right of Shakespeare's in the chancel, has
under the arms of Nash (on a chevron between three ravens' heads
erased a pellet between four crosses crosslet), quartered
.
__ *HEERE RESTETH YE BODY OF THOMAS
__ *NASHE, ESQ. HE [MAR.] ELIZABETH, THE
__ *DAVG: & HEIRE OF IOHN HALLE, GENT.
.
*THOMAS NASH* & Elizabeth *HALL* had lived
*immediately adjacent to W.Shakspere's New Place*
-----------------------------------------------------------
. Pericles Prince of Tyre Act 2, Scene 3
.
SIMONIDES: *He's but a COUNTRY GENTLEMAN*
------------------------------­------------------------------­-
_An Epistle to the *GENTLEMEN* Students of the Two UnIVERSities_
________ by *THOMAS NASH* (1589)
.
"'It is a common practice nowadays, amongst a sort of shifting
companions that run through *EVERy art* and thrive by none,
to leave the trade of *NOVERINT* whereto they were born,
land busy themselves with *the endeavors of art* , that could
scarce Latinize their neck-verse if they should have need;
yet English Seneca, read by *CANDLE* light, yields many
good sentences, as blood is a beggar, and so forth;
and if you entreat him fair in a frosty morning,
.
. *he WILL afFORD you whole HAMLETS* ;
. I should say whole handfuls of tragical speeches.
.
But, O grief! Tempus edax rerum'what is it that will last always'
----------------------------------------------------------
<<In medieval England, most weddings were held on *November 25*
St. Catherine's Day. The festivities usually ended with a strange
ritual. A *CANDLE*stick with a lighted *CANDLE* was placed on
the floor and everyone took turns jumping over it. If you didn't
extinguish the flame, you'd have good luck for a full year.>>
.
. Jack be *NIMBLE*
. Jack be quick,
. Jack jump over
. The *CANDLE*STICK
.
. Do I *ENVY* those Jacks that *NIMBLE* leap,
. To kiss the tender inward of thy hand,
. Whilst my poor lips which should that harvest reap,
. At the woods boldness by thee blushing stand.
------------------------------------------------------
. Philip Henslowe and the Admiral's Men
http://web.uvic.ca/shakespeare/Library/SLT/stage/henslowe.html
.
<<Philip Henslowe's Diary, kept from 1592
to 1603, contains valuable information about the Elizabethan stage. The
diary includes lists of performances and takings,records of
transactions
.
[Phaethon, a play now lost, was written by Thomas Dekker,
and paid for by Henslowe in 1597.] The inventory of all the
.
Item, i rock, i cage, i tomb, i Hell mouth... i bedstead.
Item, viii lances, i pair of stairs for Phaethon*.
Item, i globe, & i golden sceptre; iii clubs
Item, i golden fleece, ii racquets, i bay tree.
Item, i lion's skin, i bear's skin; Phaethon's
limbs, & Phaethon's chariot, & Argus's head.
Item, Iris's head, & rainbow; i little altar. . .
. i ghost's gown; i crown with a sun*.
.
On his death, the Henslowe's Diary passed to Alleyn.>>
---------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
Art.

Can you please summarize the point of this message.

Gangleri
Art Neuendorffer
2006-09-26 03:56:51 UTC
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Post by gangleri
Art.
Can you please summarize the point of this message.
--------------------------------------------------------------
http://91.1911encyclopedia.org/S/SH/SHAKESPEARE.htm
Loading Image...
.
<<The Stratford bust & monument must have been
erected on the N. wall. The design in its general aspect
was one often adopted by the "tombe-makers "of the period,
and according to Dugdale was executed by a *Fleming* resident
in London since 1567, Garratt Johnson (Gerard JANssen),
who was occasionally a collaborator with *NICK Stone*.
--------------------------------------------------
. Gerard JANssen / NICK Stone
.
Q1 Rossencraft _ Gilderstone
. Q2 Rosencrans Guyldensterne
. F1 _ Rosincrane _ Guildensterne
. F2,3,4 Rosincross(e) Guildenstare
..
. Rosy Cross Stone Guild
. Rosicrucians Freemasons / the Craft
-------------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
Mark Cipra
2006-09-26 13:01:19 UTC
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[snip]
Post by gangleri
Post by Art Neuendorffer
.
On his death, the Henslowe's Diary passed to Alleyn.>>
---------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
Art.
Can you please summarize the point of this message.
Gangleri
Okay, but the answer will be twice as long.

--
Mark Cipra
"Aristotle thought it was edifying to watch terrible things happen
to noble people. Why this should be so, I do not know.
But you've got to hand it to him for noticing the phenomenon."
-- Craig Lucas
Play Indiana Jones! Hide the "ark" in my address to reply by email.
Chess One
2006-09-26 16:10:12 UTC
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"gangleri" <***@verizon.net> wrote in message news:***@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Can you please summarize the point of this message.

Gangleri

-- you might also note that perhaps the most famous numerological treatise
of the period is cited below in the Naometria, and less esoterically, the
oddness of including Denmark in this grouping, in received history evidence
of the suppression of the prospects of Navarre are perhaps understandably
obscure, since only the injured party makes claim to offense. -- Phil

Simon Studeon [with claims of political alliance which are very hard to
veryify, though of circumstances which are not] named the Naometria, and
which refers to a supposed event taking place 17 July 1586 in Lunenburg,
with representatives of the King of Navarre, the King of DENMARK, and the
Queen of England -
Art Neuendorffer
2006-09-25 15:54:03 UTC
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Phil Innes wrote:
.
Post by Chess One
for an author who can use Titania for Britannia, and Oberon for
Albion, it is not a great stretch to read in Wittenberg, Würtemberg
- a city with a very famous university, indeed the same
as hosted Andreae [or some say Valentin Andreae] in 1601
- and his subsequent writing included:-
Vita ab ipso conscripta, ed. F. H. Rheinwald, Berlin 1849. The first
publication of the manuscript of the work at WINTERTHUR in 1799.
and in Vita p. 10 Andreae's statement that he wrote plays
in imitation of the English players is noted by E, K. Chambers,
/Elizabethan Stage/ I p. 344 n.
Indeed the enthusiastic anglophile, Duke of Würtemberg is intrigued
by Andreae's 'Esther' and 'Hyacinth', which the author states he
wrote 'in emulation of English actors', and Elizabeth I called the
Duke 'cousin Mumpellgart' [his family name] - and there is much
discussion round the problem of whether the cryptic references
in /Merry Wives of Windsor/ to
'cosen garmombles' and to horses hired at the Garter Inn
by retainers of a German Duke, might have some reference to
Frederick of Würtemberg. [see further in the introduction by
C. H. Hart to MWoW, Arden edition, 1904, pp. xli-xivi.]
Indeed Frederick who very much wanted the Garter - and the
corresponding ceremony at Stuttgart and other 'festivities' are
described by E. Cellius in a Latin account published at Stuttgart
1605, part of which is quoted in English translation by Elias
Ashmole in his history of the Order of the Garter.
Not incidentally, one of the English officials was Robert Spenser,
who is stated by Cellius to have been a relative of the poet.
The interesting point of this remark is that they had heard of
Spenser, and perhaps of his /Faerie Queene/, at Stuttgart.
Somewhat as parallel to Hamlet the entertainments also included
a play, put on by the visitors - some of whom were English actors!
- titled / *History of Susanna*
I beleive Ashmole lists these actors.
--------
Stimulated by this event is the both esoteric and political document
by Simon Studeon [with claims of political alliance which are very
hard to veryify, though of circumstances which are not] named the
Naometria, and which refers to a supposed event taking place 17
July 1586 in Lunenburg, with representatives of the King of Navarre,
the King of DENMARK, and the Queen of England - the object of which
was to form alliance against the Catholic League then active in
attempting to repress the prospects of Henry Navarre to the kingship
of France, and such League was titled Confederatio Militae vangelicae.
I end with the postscript from Frances Yates who reports "it is not
impossible that John Dee might have attended this Lunenburg meeting;
he was in Leipzig im May 1586, see French, John Dee, p. 121.
To conclude without acuity: I posit there is more to Wittenburg than
singular metaphorical interpretation, or 'a figure of speech', and
much in the spirit of Hamlet's oration would say 'habere, non haberi'
which in this sense request that this information too 'be held' not
excluded, rather than be beholden and held by other alone.
--------------------------------------------------------------
*JOHANN VALENTINE ANDREAE* : author of _Fama Fraternitatis_
--------------------------------------------------------
. 1597, Richard III (Q1 STC 22314):
. Printed by *VALENTINE Sims* , for *ANDREW Wise* ,
. dwelling in Paules Church-yard, at the
________ Signe of the *ANGELl* 1597.
-------------------------------------------------------------
. *Confederatio Militae vANGELicae*
-------------------------------------------------------------
___ *ANDREW* W.(ise)
. *VALENTINE* S.(ims)
The Knights of Saint *JOHN* in England
-------------------------------------------------------------------
<<By 1567 the only English Knights of Saint *JOHN*
remaining on Malta were the titular Grand Prior Richard SHELLEY
(who was an active participant in several plots against Elizabeth)
& Oliver Starkey (commander of Quenington),
___ later titular Bailiff of Egle (from 1569).>>
[John Shakspere : Bailiff of Stratford (from 1568).]
.
. THE KNIGHTS OF SAINT JOHN IN ENGLAND, SCOTLAND & IRELAND
. http://www.saintjohn.org/priory.htm
.
. <<Starkey, who had been La Valette's Latin Secretary
. and was the only Englishman at the Great Siege,
. died in 1588 & SHELLEY in 1590, when a French knight
. was appointed to the titular Grand Priory.
.
This appointment was challenged by an Irish knight resident
in the convent, one *ANDREW WISE* from Waterford who, after
complaining, was appointed Bailiff of Egle but, still unsatisfied,
appealed to the Pope. In 1593 Wise was appointed titular Grand Prior,
a dignity he held until his death in 1631. From thenceforth the
offices of Grand Prior of England, Turcopilier, Bailiff of Egle
and Prior or Grand Prior of Ireland became honorifics given to
knights whom the Grand Master & Council wished to honor with
the grand cross & membership of the Chapter-General.>>
-------------------------------------------------------------
Chap. 8, _THIS STAR OF ENGLAND_ by Dorothy & Charlton Ogburn
. http://www.sourcetext.com/sourcebook/Star/ch08.html
.
<<IN JANUARY 7, 1575, Lord Oxford set forth with his retinue,
consisting, as Burghley noted in his diary, of "two gentlemen,
two grooms, one payend, a harbinger, a housekeeper & a trenchman."
.
Before the end of May the traveller reached Venice, where he
declined a generous offer on the part of [titular Grand Prior]
*Sir RICHARD SHELLEY* of a furnished house, to continue his journey.>>
--------------------------------------------------------------
____ Priors & Grand Priors of English Langue,
. Sovereign Order of St. JOHN of Jerusalem and of Malta.
.
. THOMAS TRESHAM 1557-1559
. RICHARD SHELLEY 1557-1590
--------------------------------------------------------
. 1597, Richard III (Q1 STC 22314):
. THE TRAGEDY OF / King Richard the third. Containing,
. His teacherous Plots againft his brother Clarence:
. the pittiefull murther of his iunocent nephewes:
. his tyrannicall vfurpation: with the whole courfe
. of his detefted life, and moft deferued death.
. As it hath beene lately Acted by the
. Right honourable the Lord Chamber-laine his feruants.
.
. Printed by *VALENTINE Sims* , for *ANDREW Wise* ,
.
__ dwelling in Paules Church-yard, at the
________ Signe of the *ANGELl* 1597.
------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
Mark Cipra
2006-09-21 12:12:10 UTC
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Post by gonzalo
Post by Tom Reedy
Post by Tom Reedy
Post by c***@gmail.com
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are often portrayed in productions as
having been students at Wittenburg with Hamlet (and therefore
Horatio). Is there a textual basis for this?
I'm only finding that they were his "childhood friends," but
nothing more.
Conrad.
ps - Any thoughts on Shakespeare's bigotry? It doesn't bother me,
but then I'm not Jewish.
C.
Why would you have to be Jewish to be bothered by bigotry?
TR
Oh, and the textual support for R & G as students with Hamlet is in
the 1603 Q.
TR
Rosencrantz & Guildenstern, I have come to believe represent,
respectively, Stratford Will Shakspere & Ben Jonson....Guildenstern
doing most of the talking. It was not enough for Will to pretend to
be Shakespeare. He had to have a handler. The quick witted (albeit
illiterate) butcher's son & one time butcher's apprentice, then was
paired up with a classically educated bricklayer's son & one-time
bricklayers apprentice...& it was up to Jonson to take Shakspere here
& there...to match wits at the Mermaid Tavern...& that sort of thing.
Even, with luck, to be seen in public together with Edward de Vere.
Thus "You were sent for, weren't you?"
The tern "schoolfellows" means "theatre people"...& you are
right...there is no reference to R & G ever having been to school in
Wittenburg. There is no reference in all Hamlet to anyone ever having
been to any university except Polonius when he says "When I was at
university..." "Going to school in Wittenburg" has an allegorical
meaning that I would be happy to explain if anyone is interested.
Claudius to Hamlet, Act I, Scene ii: For your intent / In going back to
school at Wittenberg ...

--
Mark Cipra
"Aristotle thought it was edifying to watch terrible things happen
to noble people. Why this should be so, I do not know.
But you've got to hand it to him for noticing the phenomenon."
-- Craig Lucas
Play Indiana Jones! Hide the "ark" in my address to reply by email.
Tom Reedy
2006-09-21 14:18:42 UTC
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Post by Mark Cipra
Post by gonzalo
Post by Tom Reedy
Post by Tom Reedy
Post by c***@gmail.com
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are often portrayed in productions as
having been students at Wittenburg with Hamlet (and therefore
Horatio). Is there a textual basis for this?
I'm only finding that they were his "childhood friends," but
nothing more.
Conrad.
ps - Any thoughts on Shakespeare's bigotry? It doesn't bother me,
but then I'm not Jewish.
C.
Why would you have to be Jewish to be bothered by bigotry?
TR
Oh, and the textual support for R & G as students with Hamlet is in
the 1603 Q.
TR
Rosencrantz & Guildenstern, I have come to believe represent,
respectively, Stratford Will Shakspere & Ben Jonson....Guildenstern
doing most of the talking. It was not enough for Will to pretend to
be Shakespeare. He had to have a handler. The quick witted (albeit
illiterate) butcher's son & one time butcher's apprentice, then was
paired up with a classically educated bricklayer's son & one-time
bricklayers apprentice...& it was up to Jonson to take Shakspere here
& there...to match wits at the Mermaid Tavern...& that sort of thing.
Even, with luck, to be seen in public together with Edward de Vere.
Thus "You were sent for, weren't you?"
The tern "schoolfellows" means "theatre people"...& you are
right...there is no reference to R & G ever having been to school in
Wittenburg. There is no reference in all Hamlet to anyone ever having
been to any university except Polonius when he says "When I was at
university..." "Going to school in Wittenburg" has an allegorical
meaning that I would be happy to explain if anyone is interested.
Claudius to Hamlet, Act I, Scene ii: For your intent / In going back to
school at Wittenberg ...
Act 2 Scene 2, 1603 Q:

Ham.

What, Gilderstone, and Rossencraft,
Welcome kinde Schoole-fellowes to Elsanoure.

Gil.

We thanke your Grace, and would be very glad
You were as when we were at Wittenberg.

TR
Post by Mark Cipra
--
Mark Cipra
"Aristotle thought it was edifying to watch terrible things happen
to noble people. Why this should be so, I do not know.
But you've got to hand it to him for noticing the phenomenon."
-- Craig Lucas
Play Indiana Jones! Hide the "ark" in my address to reply by email.
c***@gmail.com
2006-09-27 18:17:14 UTC
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Post by Tom Reedy
Ham.
What, Gilderstone, and Rossencraft,
Welcome kinde Schoole-fellowes to Elsanoure.
Gil.
We thanke your Grace, and would be very glad
You were as when we were at Wittenberg.
Thanks, Tom Reedy -- any notions as to the authenticity
of that passage? That is, did Bill write it?


Conrad.
Art Neuendorffer
2006-09-27 19:53:49 UTC
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Post by c***@gmail.com
Post by Tom Reedy
Ham.
What, Gilderstone, and Rossencraft,
Welcome kinde Schoole-fellowes to Elsanoure.
Gil.
We thanke your Grace, and would be very glad
You were as when we were at Wittenberg.
.
***@gmail.com wrote:
.
Post by c***@gmail.com
Thanks, Tom Reedy -- any notions as to the authenticity
of that passage? That is, did Bill write it?
Eddie wrote about his Masonic & Rosicrucian 'friends.'
.
Art Neuendorffer
Tom Reedy
2006-09-27 22:47:38 UTC
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Post by c***@gmail.com
Post by Tom Reedy
Ham.
What, Gilderstone, and Rossencraft,
Welcome kinde Schoole-fellowes to Elsanoure.
Gil.
We thanke your Grace, and would be very glad
You were as when we were at Wittenberg.
Thanks, Tom Reedy -- any notions as to the authenticity
of that passage? That is, did Bill write it?
Probably.

I'm sure you're familiar with the various opinions about the 1603 quarto --
reported text, road version, first draft -- take your pick.

It was registered in 1602 to James Roberts, and Q1 was printed for Nicholas
Ling and John Trundell, Q2 (1604) for Nicholas Ling. In 1607 the stationer's
right was transferred from Nicholas Ling to John Smithwick.

It appears to me that the title page of the 1604 Q4 lends support to Q1
being Shakespearean. It is described on its title page as "Newly imprinted
and enlarged to almost as much againe as it was," so therefore it seems to
acknowledge that Q1 was an authorized version. The fact that it was
registered the year before it was printed also supports that, in my view.

TR
Post by c***@gmail.com
Conrad.
Tom Reedy
2006-09-28 16:35:35 UTC
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"James Roberts and" inserted below concerning Q2.
Post by Tom Reedy
Post by c***@gmail.com
Post by Tom Reedy
Ham.
What, Gilderstone, and Rossencraft,
Welcome kinde Schoole-fellowes to Elsanoure.
Gil.
We thanke your Grace, and would be very glad
You were as when we were at Wittenberg.
Thanks, Tom Reedy -- any notions as to the authenticity
of that passage? That is, did Bill write it?
Probably.
I'm sure you're familiar with the various opinions about the 1603 quarto --
reported text, road version, first draft -- take your pick.
It was registered in 1602 to James Roberts, and Q1 was printed for Nicholas
Ling and John Trundell, Q2 (1604) for James Roberts and Nicholas Ling. In 1607 the stationer's
right was transferred from Nicholas Ling to John Smithwick.
It appears to me that the title page of the 1604 Q4 lends support to Q1
being Shakespearean. It is described on its title page as "Newly imprinted
and enlarged to almost as much againe as it was," so therefore it seems to
acknowledge that Q1 was an authorized version. The fact that it was
registered the year before it was printed also supports that, in my view.
TR
Post by c***@gmail.com
Conrad.
Ignoto
2006-09-24 01:04:53 UTC
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Post by gonzalo
Post by Tom Reedy
Post by Tom Reedy
Post by c***@gmail.com
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are often portrayed in productions as
having been students at Wittenburg with Hamlet (and therefore
Horatio). Is there a textual basis for this?
I'm only finding that they were his "childhood friends," but nothing
more.
Conrad.
ps - Any thoughts on Shakespeare's bigotry? It doesn't bother me,
but then I'm not Jewish.
C.
Why would you have to be Jewish to be bothered by bigotry?
TR
Oh, and the textual support for R & G as students with Hamlet is in the
1603 Q.
TR
Rosencrantz & Guildenstern, I have come to believe represent,
respectively, Stratford Will Shakspere & Ben Jonson....Guildenstern
doing most of the talking. It was not enough for Will to pretend to be
Shakespeare. He had to have a handler. The quick witted (albeit
illiterate) butcher's son & one time butcher's apprentice, then was
paired up with a classically educated bricklayer's son & one-time
bricklayers apprentice...& it was up to Jonson to take Shakspere here
& there...to match wits at the Mermaid Tavern...& that sort of thing.
Even, with luck, to be seen in public together with Edward de Vere.
Thus "You were sent for, weren't you?"
The tern "schoolfellows" means "theatre people"...& you are
right...there is no reference to R & G ever having been to school in
Wittenburg. There is no reference in all Hamlet to anyone ever having
been to any university except Polonius when he says "When I was at
university..." "Going to school in Wittenburg" has an allegorical
meaning that I would be happy to explain if anyone is interested.
"In consideration of which, it is finally agreed, by the
foresaid Hearers and Spectators, That they neither in
themselves conceal, nor suffer by them to be concealed,
any State-decipherer, or Politick Picklock of the Scene, so so-
lemnly ridiculous, as to search out, who was meant by
Ginger-bread-woman, who by the Hobby-horse-man, who by
the Costard-monger, nay, who by their Wares. Or that
will pretend to affirm (on his own inspired Ignorance)
what Mirror of Magistrates is meant by the Justice,
what great Lady by the Pig-woman, what conceal'd States-
man, by the Seller of Mouse-traps, and so of the rest.
But that such Person, or Persons so found, be left disco-
vered to the mercy of the Author, as a forfeiture to the
Stage, and your laughter aforesaid. As also, such as
shall so desperately, or ambitiously, play the fool by his
place aforesaid, to challenge the Author of scurrility, be-
cause the Language somewhere favours of Smithfield, the
Booth, and the Pig-broath, or of prophaneness, because
a Mad-man cries, God quit you, or bless you."
(Jonson, induction to Bartholomew Fair)

"In one place of my Booke Pierce Penilesse saith, but to the Knight of
the Post, "I pray how might I call you", & they say, I meant one
"Howe", a Knaue of that trade, that I neuer heard of before. The
Antiquaries are offended without cause, thinking I goe about to detract
from that excellent profession, when (God is my witnesse) I reuerence
it as much as any of them all, and had no manner of allusion to them
that stumble at it. I hope they wil giue me leaue to think there be
fooles of that Art as well as of al other; but to say I vtterly
condemne it as an vnfruitfull studie, or seeme to despise the excellent
qualified partes of it, is a most false and iniurious sumise. There is
nothing that if a man list he may not wrest or peruert, I cannot forbid
anie to thinke villainously, Sed caueat emptor, Let the interpreter
beware: for none euer hard me make Allegories of an idle text."
(Nashe, Pierce Penniless)
c***@gmail.com
2006-09-20 23:58:09 UTC
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Post by Tom Reedy
Oh, and the textual support for R & G as students with Hamlet is in the
1603 Q.
Ah; thanks. Do you know where in the 1603 Quatro?


Conrad.
Tom Reedy
2006-09-21 00:12:23 UTC
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Post by c***@gmail.com
Post by Tom Reedy
Oh, and the textual support for R & G as students with Hamlet is in the
1603 Q.
Ah; thanks. Do you know where in the 1603 Quatro?
2.2

TR
Post by c***@gmail.com
Conrad.
c***@gmail.com
2006-09-20 23:50:44 UTC
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Post by Tom Reedy
Post by c***@gmail.com
ps - Any thoughts on Shakespeare's bigotry? It doesn't bother me,
but then I'm not Jewish.
Why would you have to be Jewish to be bothered by bigotry?
I wouldn't; didn't say I would.

I said: Shakespeare's anti-Jew bigotry doesn't bother me; but, I'm
not Jewish.

That is, I take it as harmless and forgive him it; it doesn't hurt my
feelings. If I were Jewish, I might take it more personal.

My question to you is, why are you more interested in my attitudes
toward bigotry than in Shakespeare?


Conrad.
Tom Reedy
2006-09-21 00:12:03 UTC
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Post by c***@gmail.com
Post by Tom Reedy
Post by c***@gmail.com
ps - Any thoughts on Shakespeare's bigotry? It doesn't bother me,
but then I'm not Jewish.
Why would you have to be Jewish to be bothered by bigotry?
I wouldn't; didn't say I would.
I said: Shakespeare's anti-Jew bigotry doesn't bother me; but, I'm
not Jewish.
That is, I take it as harmless and forgive him it; it doesn't hurt my
feelings. If I were Jewish, I might take it more personal.
My question to you is, why are you more interested in my attitudes
toward bigotry than in Shakespeare?
I'm not. You're statement, "It doesn't bother me, but then I'm not Jewish,"
implies (at least to me) that you think one would have to ne Jewish to be
offended by bigotry, and not just Shakespeare's. I thought that was a
strange statement.

TR
Post by c***@gmail.com
Conrad.
Bianca Steele
2006-09-21 00:33:24 UTC
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Post by c***@gmail.com
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are often portrayed in productions as
having been students at Wittenburg with Hamlet (and therefore
Horatio). Is there a textual basis for this?
I supposed they had traveled with him from Denmark to Wittenberg,
unlike Horatio whom he met at school.

I'm not sure why. I can't remember whether I got this idea from the
text or from a production of the play.

I suppose I should research this question and do a close reading of the
scenes in question before replying.
Post by c***@gmail.com
Conrad.
ps - Any thoughts on Shakespeare's bigotry? It doesn't bother me,
but then I'm not Jewish.
A pretty open-ended question, don't you agree?

I'm surprised Lynne hasn't jumped on this one yet. I wonder what she
could be waiting for.

--
Bianca Steele
seeker
2006-09-21 20:40:04 UTC
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Post by Bianca Steele
I suppose I should research this question and do a close reading of the
scenes in question before replying.
What a novel idea! Yes, you should do that Bianca Steele!
c***@gmail.com
2006-09-27 18:39:26 UTC
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Post by seeker
Post by Bianca Steele
I suppose I should research this question and do a close reading of the
scenes in question before replying.
What a novel idea! Yes, you should do that Bianca Steele!
Relax.

I've been doing a close reading of the play for the
last year and a half, and I'm the one who asked the
question.


Conrad.
g***@gmail.com
2017-06-19 00:16:40 UTC
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Post by c***@gmail.com
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are often portrayed in productions as
having been students at Wittenburg with Hamlet (and therefore
Horatio). Is there a textual basis for this?
I'm only finding that they were his "childhood friends," but nothing
more.
Conrad.
ps - Any thoughts on Shakespeare's bigotry? It doesn't bother me,
but then I'm not Jewish.
C.
Does one have to be black to despise racism? Your non-Jewish bubble is HIGHLY "burstable".

Goffredo Armani
John W Kennedy
2017-06-19 16:51:30 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by c***@gmail.com
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are often portrayed in productions as
having been students at Wittenburg with Hamlet (and therefore
Horatio). Is there a textual basis for this?
I'm only finding that they were his "childhood friends," but nothing
more.
Conrad.
ps - Any thoughts on Shakespeare's bigotry? It doesn't bother me,
but then I'm not Jewish.
C.
Does one have to be black to despise racism? Your non-Jewish bubble is HIGHLY "burstable".
The question you’re answering is eleven years old.
--
John W. Kennedy
"The blind rulers of Logres
Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue."
-- Charles Williams. "Taliessin through Logres: Prelude"
A***@germanymail.com
2017-06-19 19:20:00 UTC
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Post by John W Kennedy
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by c***@gmail.com
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are often portrayed in productions as
having been students at Wittenburg with Hamlet (and therefore
Horatio). Is there a textual basis for this?
I'm only finding that they were his "childhood friends," but nothing
more.
Conrad.
ps - Any thoughts on Shakespeare's bigotry? It doesn't bother me,
but then I'm not Jewish.
C.
Does one have to be black to despise racism? Your non-Jewish bubble is HIGHLY "burstable".
The question you’re answering is eleven years old.
--
John W. Kennedy
"The blind rulers of Logres
Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue."
-- Charles Williams. "Taliessin through Logres: Prelude"
Art N
marco
2017-07-30 13:33:23 UTC
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bigot?

Besides, I met lord bigot and lord salisbury, King John: IV, ii

Lord bigot, I am none. King John: IV, iii


William Shakespeare, gentleman
A***@germanymail.com
2017-08-07 15:57:01 UTC
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Art Neuendorffer
d***@rogers.com
2017-09-07 17:05:19 UTC
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Post by c***@gmail.com
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are often portrayed in productions as
having been students at Wittenburg with Hamlet (and therefore
Horatio). Is there a textual basis for this?
I'm only finding that they were his "childhood friends," but nothing
more.
Conrad.
ps - Any thoughts on Shakespeare's bigotry? It doesn't bother me,
but then I'm not Jewish.
C.
d***@rogers.com
2017-09-07 17:26:31 UTC
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Post by c***@gmail.com
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are often portrayed in productions as
having been students at Wittenburg with Hamlet (and therefore
Horatio). Is there a textual basis for this?
I'm only finding that they were his "childhood friends," but nothing
more.
Conrad.
ps - Any thoughts on Shakespeare's bigotry? It doesn't bother me,
but then I'm not Jewish.
Funny names like these are actually not uncommon in Denmark and Sweden.
Perhaps Sh. just picked them because they would sound funny to his English audience's ears. And it is still Wittenberg - not burg. A berg is a hill, a burg is a castle.
A***@germanymail.com
2017-09-07 22:03:40 UTC
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Post by d***@rogers.com
Post by c***@gmail.com
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are often portrayed in productions as
having been students at Wittenburg with Hamlet (and therefore
Horatio). Is there a textual basis for this?
I'm only finding that they were his "childhood friends," but nothing
more.
Conrad.
ps - Any thoughts on Shakespeare's bigotry? It doesn't bother me,
but then I'm not Jewish.
Funny names like these are actually not uncommon in Denmark and Sweden.
Perhaps Sh. just picked them because they would sound funny to his English audience's ears. And it is still Wittenberg - not burg. A berg is a hill, a burg is a castle.
Art Neuendorffer

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