Discussion:
Unexplored Spenser connection
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Don
2018-03-10 02:37:04 UTC
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We are aware that Spenser, the Poet Laureat, by most accounts, was England's greatest poet, not Shakespeare, who we say was the greatest over-all writer. But it seems odd that, though the two were in London at the same time and must have visited the same circles, so little is revealed about Shakespeare in this connection.

Must be that several likely connections between the two are eminently explorable, yet we aren't seeing it in print. There is one noteable occasion when Shakespeare must have wanted to be involved. Here's the description found in one Spenser commentary by John Hart, Spenser and the Fairy Queen (1854), 138:

(quote)
Spenser was buried, at his own request, near the tomb of Chaucer, in Westminster Abbey. His funeral was at the expense of the Earl of Essex. The pall was held by brother poets. Mournful elegies and poems, together with the pens that wrote them, were thrown into his grave.
(unquote)

Gadzooks! Zounds! (late 16th century: contraction from (God)'s wounds (i.e., those of Jesus Christ on the Cross).) This "throwing into the grave" of Spenser invites us to imagine that Shakespeare attended the funeral, wrote something mournful, and threw it and his pen into the grave along with other notable literati. Where is Delia Bacon, who tried to dig up Shakespeare's grave, now that we need her to dig up Spencer and see what's in his coffin?
John W Kennedy
2018-03-10 16:07:54 UTC
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Post by Don
We are aware that Spenser, the Poet Laureat, by most accounts, was England's greatest poet, not Shakespeare, who we say was the greatest over-all writer. But it seems odd that, though the two were in London at the same time and must have visited the same circles, so little is revealed about Shakespeare in this connection.
Like the famous correspondence between T. S. Eliot and Milton Berle,
only recently published by the Clarendon Press?
--
John W. Kennedy
"The blind rulers of Logres
Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue."
-- Charles Williams. "Taliessin through Logres: Prelude"
Don
2018-03-10 17:06:25 UTC
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Post by John W Kennedy
Post by Don
We are aware that Spenser, the Poet Laureat, by most accounts, was England's greatest poet, not Shakespeare, who we say was the greatest over-all writer. But it seems odd that, though the two were in London at the same time and must have visited the same circles, so little is revealed about Shakespeare in this connection.
Like the famous correspondence between T. S. Eliot and Milton Berle,
only recently published by the Clarendon Press?
--
John W. Kennedy
"The blind rulers of Logres
Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue."
-- Charles Williams. "Taliessin through Logres: Prelude"
William Goodman, Ph.D:

(quote)
The poet T. S. Eliot, however, viewed this kind of ersatz togetherness with a jaundiced eye: "Television permits millions of people to listen to the same joke at the same time, and yet remain lonesome." That kind of shoots a hole in my theory; maybe I should avoid English poets.
(unquote)

https://books.google.com/books?id=_zj3b1j9ZM4C&pg=PA21&lpg=PA21&dq=T.+S.+Eliot+Milton+Berle&source=bl&ots=kFetXediYd&sig=2eggPrJtczIpa4RDTx9-U0etdx8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiq08SJnOLZAhUDzmMKHbOwDD4Q6AEISTAJ#v=onepage&q=T.%20S.%20Eliot%20Milton%20Berle&f=false
Arthur Neuendorffer
2018-03-10 18:07:41 UTC
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Don wrote:

<<Spenser was buried, at his own request, near the tomb of Chaucer, in Westminster Abbey. His funeral was at the expense of the Earl of Essex. The pall was held by brother poets. Mournful elegies and poems, together with the pens that wrote them, were thrown into his grave.

Gadzooks! Zounds! (late 16th century: contraction from (God)'s wounds (i.e., those of Jesus Christ on the Cross).) This "throwing into the grave" of Spenser invites us to imagine that Shakespeare attended the funeral, wrote something mournful, and threw it and his pen into the grave along with other notable literati.>>

Sounds like a Masonic {POETS} funeral!

FW With a grand funferall:
------------------------------------------
. [Hamlet (Quarto 2) 5.1]
.
Clown: What is he that builds {S}tronger
. {T}hen eyth{E}r [THE MAS{O}N],
. the Shy{P}wright, or the Carpenter.
........................................
. <= 8 =>
.
. W h a t
. i s h e t h a t
. b u i l (d) s {S} t
. r o n g (e) r {T} h
. e n e y (t) h {E} r
. [T H E M (A) S {O} N]
. t h e S (h) y {P} w
. r i g h t, o r t
. h e C a r p e n
. t e r.
.
{POETS} -8: Prob. in question: ~ 1 in 660
.
Answer: (hated) [M(A)S{O}N] {POETS} ?
------------------------------------------

So, Don,.... are you a MASON (or a Lewis).

Art Neuendorffer
Don
2018-03-10 22:02:11 UTC
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Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
<<Spenser was buried, at his own request, near the tomb of Chaucer, in Westminster Abbey. His funeral was at the expense of the Earl of Essex. The pall was held by brother poets. Mournful elegies and poems, together with the pens that wrote them, were thrown into his grave.
Gadzooks! Zounds! (late 16th century: contraction from (God)'s wounds (i.e., those of Jesus Christ on the Cross).) This "throwing into the grave" of Spenser invites us to imagine that Shakespeare attended the funeral, wrote something mournful, and threw it and his pen into the grave along with other notable literati.>>
Sounds like a Masonic {POETS} funeral!
------------------------------------------
. [Hamlet (Quarto 2) 5.1]
.
Clown: What is he that builds {S}tronger
. {T}hen eyth{E}r [THE MAS{O}N],
. the Shy{P}wright, or the Carpenter.
........................................
. <= 8 =>
.
. W h a t
. i s h e t h a t
. b u i l (d) s {S} t
. r o n g (e) r {T} h
. e n e y (t) h {E} r
. [T H E M (A) S {O} N]
. t h e S (h) y {P} w
. r i g h t, o r t
. h e C a r p e n
. t e r.
.
{POETS} -8: Prob. in question: ~ 1 in 660
.
Answer: (hated) [M(A)S{O}N] {POETS} ?
------------------------------------------
So, Don,.... are you a MASON (or a Lewis).
Art Neuendorffer
I hardly know the difference between masonry, Scottish Rites, Freemasons, and Craft Guilds. Can't even tell if I'm a "Lewis," or son of a Mason, since my step-father was one.

Fun to see them juggling Masonic with other orders on the "Secret of Oak Island" TV series, finding out clues linking Knights Templar with some of the treasure maps and lore in the archives of Masonic orders, going all the way back to the Sinclairs of Scotland. One of the tempting possible treasures in the underground vaults they search is supposed to be old parchment, maybe a Shakespeare lost play? Masons do keep secrets and have their labyrinth of exclusive communications, I suppose. BTW, they seem to need help decoding something that looks vaguely Templar.

My understanding is that Catholic Church early on supported Masonic orders in England and Scotland, then sometime after 17th century, when Scottish Freemasonry was strong, made papal decisions against it, on the grounds that it allowed indifferent attitudes to religion. Flat out Satanic, some said. Don't know if the possible link between Knights Templar and Freemasons has a similar Catholic Church controversy. Odds are that Catholic Church, with its past history of treasure hunting, is following the digs on Oak Island and will stake claims on findings of interest.

But you would be the one to make a case for Shakespeare's membership in Freemasons, maybe draw lines between known Freemasons in London during Shakespeare's time? Using Freemasons' symbolism, though, like the phoenix, doesn't add up to membership.
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