Discussion:
Abductive Reasoning and Shakespeare
(too old to reply)
Jim F.
2017-02-23 05:52:59 UTC
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Since the name on a book's cover isn't always the writer of that book,
e.g. Martin Marprelate, Shakespeare wrote Shakespeare can't be deductive.

It can't be inductive either, for we knew little about William Shakespeare's
life to support the reading of the First Folio and Sonnets. Actually,
assuming William Shakespeare as the true writer can't help reasoning any of
the 154 sonnets.

For the Shakespeare authorship question, Dark Lady's true name, etc.,
we can only inference to the best explanation, i.e., to solve these cruxes
by abductive reasoning.
Arthur Neuendorffer
2017-02-23 13:50:08 UTC
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marco
2017-02-24 01:02:07 UTC
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Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
http://youtu.be/KhSqvycZZ0c
.
Jim F.
2017-02-24 01:54:44 UTC
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Elaine Scarry framed the name Henry Constable from sonnet 18,
"So LONg as mEn CAn BReaTHe or EYes caN see,"
to support her assumption in _Naming Thy Name_.

Roman Paget framed his own name from sonnet 7,
"AtTEndiNG on his gOlden PilgRiMAge,"
to laugh at her.

Elaine's inference isn't the best but logically correct.
Roman's logic is wrong, for the 1609 _Sonnets_ knew no 2016 Roman Paget.
The tool here (one-way anagram) is innocent. You can criticize how
Elaine used the tool, not the tool itself.

Forward and Backward

Selecting few lines from _Sonnets_ to support one's assumption of Shakespeare,
especially the true authorship, is backward reasoning.
Reasoning all 154 sonnets for the best explanation is forward reasoning, and
true authorship can be found at the end.

Consensus on the best explanation is hard. One way to reach that is to focus on
difficult lines and solve them first.
Arthur Neuendorffer
2017-02-24 05:37:25 UTC
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Post by Jim F.
Selecting few lines from _Sonnets_ to support one's assumption of
Shakespeare, especially the true authorship, is backward reasoning.
[SIDNEI] wasn't my candidate:
-----------------------------------------------------
Mr. [E]dw. [DYER] "bore the canopy" {For}[SIDNEI]:
. http://tinyurl.com/ptpxsdu
.......................................................
. Sonnet 125

. WEr't ought to me I "bore the canopy",
. With my extern the outward honoring,
. Or layd great bases {For} eternity,
. Which proues more [S]hort then wast or ruining?
. Haue [I] not seene dwellers on forme an[D] fauor
. Lose all,and more by payi[N]g too much rent
. For compound sw[E]et;Forgoing simple sauor,
. Pitt[I]full thriuors in their gazing spent.
. Noe,let me be obsequious in thy heart,
. And take thou my oblacion,poore but free,
. Which is not mixt with seconds,knows no art,
. But mutuall render onely me for thee.
. Hence,thou subbornd Informer, a trew soule
. When most impeacht,stands least in thy controule.
.......................................................
. <= *26* =>
.
. {F o r} e t e r n i t y,W h i c h p r o u e s m o r e
. [S] h o r t t h e n w a s t o r r u i n i n g?H a u e
. [I] n o t s e e n e d w e l l e r s o n f o r m e a n
. [D] f a u o r L o s e a l l,a n d m o r e b y p a y i
. [N] g t o o m u c h r e n t F o r c o m p o u n d s w
. [E] e t;F o r g o i n g s i m p l e s a u o r,P i t t
. [I] f u l l t h r i u o r s i n t h e i r g a z i n g

{For}[SIDNEI] *26*
--------------------------------------------------------
. Sonnet 47

. BEtwixt mine eye and heart a league is tooke,
. And each doth good turnes now vnto the other,
. When that mine eye is famisht {For} a looke,
. Or heart in loue with [S]ighes himselfe doth smother;
. W[I]th my loues picture then my eye [D]oth feast,
. And to the painted ba[N]quet bids my heart:
. An other tim[E] mine eye is my hearts guest,
. And [I]n his thoughts of loue doth share a part.
. So either by thy picture or my loue,
. Thy seife away,are present still with me,
. For thou nor farther then my thoughts canst moue,
. And I am still with them,and they with thee.
. Or if they sleepe, thy picture in my sight
. Awakes my heart,to hearts and eyes delight.
.......................................................
. <= *26* =>
.
. {F o r} a l o o k e,O r h e a r t i n l o u e w i t h
. [S] i g h e s h i m s e l f e d o t h s m o t h e r;W
. [I] t h m y l o u e s p i c t u r e t h e n m y e y e
. [D] o t h f e a s t,A n d t o t h e p a i n t e d b a
. [N] q u e t b i d s m y h e a r t:A n o t h e r t i m
. [E] m i n e e y e i s m y h e a r t s g u e s t,A n d
. [I] n h i s t h o u g h t s
.
{For}[SIDNEI] *26*
.
Prob. of 2{For}[SIDNEI]s same skip ~ 1 in 34,000,000
--------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
A***@germanymail.com
2017-02-25 19:18:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
Post by Jim F.
Selecting few lines from _Sonnets_ to support one's assumption of
Shakespeare, especially the true authorship, is backward reasoning.
-----------------------------------------------------
. http://tinyurl.com/ptpxsdu
.......................................................
. Sonnet 125
. WEr't ought to me I "bore the canopy",
. With my extern the outward honoring,
. Or layd great bases {For} eternity,
. Which proues more [S]hort then wast or ruining?
. Haue [I] not seene dwellers on forme an[D] fauor
. Lose all,and more by payi[N]g too much rent
. For compound sw[E]et;Forgoing simple sauor,
. Pitt[I]full thriuors in their gazing spent.
. Noe,let me be obsequious in thy heart,
. And take thou my oblacion,poore but free,
. Which is not mixt with seconds,knows no art,
. But mutuall render onely me for thee.
. Hence,thou subbornd Informer, a trew soule
. When most impeacht,stands least in thy controule.
.......................................................
. <= *26* =>
.
. {F o r} e t e r n i t y,W h i c h p r o u e s m o r e
. [S] h o r t t h e n w a s t o r r u i n i n g?H a u e
. [I] n o t s e e n e d w e l l e r s o n f o r m e a n
. [D] f a u o r L o s e a l l,a n d m o r e b y p a y i
. [N] g t o o m u c h r e n t F o r c o m p o u n d s w
. [E] e t;F o r g o i n g s i m p l e s a u o r,P i t t
. [I] f u l l t h r i u o r s i n t h e i r g a z i n g
{For}[SIDNEI] *26*
--------------------------------------------------------
. Sonnet 47
. BEtwixt mine eye and heart a league is tooke,
. And each doth good turnes now vnto the other,
. When that mine eye is famisht {For} a looke,
. Or heart in loue with [S]ighes himselfe doth smother;
. W[I]th my loues picture then my eye [D]oth feast,
. An other tim[E] mine eye is my hearts guest,
. And [I]n his thoughts of loue doth share a part.
. So either by thy picture or my loue,
. Thy seife away,are present still with me,
. For thou nor farther then my thoughts canst moue,
. And I am still with them,and they with thee.
. Or if they sleepe, thy picture in my sight
. Awakes my heart,to hearts and eyes delight.
.......................................................
. <= *26* =>
.
. {F o r} a l o o k e,O r h e a r t i n l o u e w i t h
. [S] i g h e s h i m s e l f e d o t h s m o t h e r;W
. [I] t h m y l o u e s p i c t u r e t h e n m y e y e
. [D] o t h f e a s t,A n d t o t h e p a i n t e d b a
. [N] q u e t b i d s m y h e a r t:A n o t h e r t i m
. [E] m i n e e y e i s m y h e a r t s g u e s t,A n d
. [I] n h i s t h o u g h t s
.
{For}[SIDNEI] *26*
.
Prob. of 2{For}[SIDNEI]s same skip ~ 1 in 34,000,000
--------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
Art N
marco
2017-02-25 23:49:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
Post by Jim F.
Selecting few lines from _Sonnets_ to support one's assumption of
Shakespeare, especially the true authorship, is backward reasoning.
-----------------------------------------------------
. http://tinyurl.com/ptpxsdu
.......................................................
. Sonnet 125
. WEr't ought to me I "bore the canopy",
. With my extern the outward honoring,
. Or layd great bases {For} eternity,
. Which proues more [S]hort then wast or ruining?
. Haue [I] not seene dwellers on forme an[D] fauor
. Lose all,and more by payi[N]g too much rent
. For compound sw[E]et;Forgoing simple sauor,
. Pitt[I]full thriuors in their gazing spent.
. Noe,let me be obsequious in thy heart,
. And take thou my oblacion,poore but free,
. Which is not mixt with seconds,knows no art,
. But mutuall render onely me for thee.
. Hence,thou subbornd Informer, a trew soule
. When most impeacht,stands least in thy controule.
.......................................................
. <= *26* =>
.
. {F o r} e t e r n i t y,W h i c h p r o u e s m o r e
. [S] h o r t t h e n w a s t o r r u i n i n g?H a u e
. [I] n o t s e e n e d w e l l e r s o n f o r m e a n
. [D] f a u o r L o s e a l l,a n d m o r e b y p a y i
. [N] g t o o m u c h r e n t F o r c o m p o u n d s w
. [E] e t;F o r g o i n g s i m p l e s a u o r,P i t t
. [I] f u l l t h r i u o r s i n t h e i r g a z i n g
{For}[SIDNEI] *26*
--------------------------------------------------------
. Sonnet 47
. BEtwixt mine eye and heart a league is tooke,
. And each doth good turnes now vnto the other,
. When that mine eye is famisht {For} a looke,
. Or heart in loue with [S]ighes himselfe doth smother;
. W[I]th my loues picture then my eye [D]oth feast,
. An other tim[E] mine eye is my hearts guest,
. And [I]n his thoughts of loue doth share a part.
. So either by thy picture or my loue,
. Thy seife away,are present still with me,
. For thou nor farther then my thoughts canst moue,
. And I am still with them,and they with thee.
. Or if they sleepe, thy picture in my sight
. Awakes my heart,to hearts and eyes delight.
.......................................................
. <= *26* =>
.
. {F o r} a l o o k e,O r h e a r t i n l o u e w i t h
. [S] i g h e s h i m s e l f e d o t h s m o t h e r;W
. [I] t h m y l o u e s p i c t u r e t h e n m y e y e
. [D] o t h f e a s t,A n d t o t h e p a i n t e d b a
. [N] q u e t b i d s m y h e a r t:A n o t h e r t i m
. [E] m i n e e y e i s m y h e a r t s g u e s t,A n d
. [I] n h i s t h o u g h t s
.
{For}[SIDNEI] *26*
.
Prob. of 2{For}[SIDNEI]s same skip ~ 1 in 34,000,000
--------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
Art N
.
Jim F.
2017-02-26 00:59:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Exist any ELS with a full name like "Philip Sidney" or
"Edward de Vere" in Shakespeare's works?

Philip Sidney was painful for *25* days and freed on the 26th.

Sir Philip Sidney, who having his Horse slain under him,
and getting upon another, was shot into the thigh, and
*25* days after, in the flower of his age, died.
——A Chronicle of the Kings of England, 1670

He's a "painful warrior"; his full name is sealed in line 9 of sonnet
*25* via one-way anagram: "The painful warrior famoused for worth."

Finding the author of sonnet 25 may support this assumption, for
the right answer can reason every word of sonnet 25 to reach
the goal of best explanation. The key is in line 3:
"Whilst I whom fortune of such triumph bars" that spells
Christopher Marlowe, a Wilton House poet.

LEt those who are in fauor with their stars,[1]
Of publike honour and proud titles bost,
Whilst I whome fortune of such tryumph bars
Vnlookt for ioy in that I honour most;

Great Princes fauorites their faire leaues spread,[5]
But as the Marygold at the suns eye,
And in them-selues their pride lies buried,
For at a frowne they in their glory die.

The painefull warrier famosed for worth,[9]
After a thousand victories once foild,
Is from the booke of honour rased quite,
And all the rest forgot for which he toild:

Then happy I that loue and am beloued [13]
Where I may not remoue, nor be remoued.

Line 6 spells Mary Sidney, hinted by "Marygold"; she is
Philip Sidney's sister and patroness of Wilton House poets.

Actually, every flower in _Sonnets_ projects someone to match
with its context. A good example is the six flowers in sonnet 99
that seal six names via one-way anagram, and the speaker tells
what sin each has done.
Arthur Neuendorffer
2017-02-26 04:57:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jim F.
Selecting few lines from _Sonnets_ to support one's assumption of
Shakespeare, especially the true authorship, is backward reasoning.
[SIDNEI] wasn't my candidate:
-----------------------------------------------------
Mr. [E]dw. [DYER] "bore the canopy" {For}[SIDNEI]:
. http://tinyurl.com/ptpxsdu
.......................................................
. Sonnet 125

. WEr't ought to me I "bore the canopy",
. With my extern the outward honoring,
. Or layd great bases {For} eternity,
. Which proues more [S]hort then wast or ruining?
. Haue [I] not seene dwellers on forme an[D] fauor
. Lose all,and more by payi[N]g too much rent
. For compound sw[E]et;Forgoing simple sauor,
. Pitt[I]full thriuors in their gazing spent.
. Noe,let me be obsequious in thy heart,
. And take thou my oblacion,poore but free,
. Which is not mixt with seconds,knows no art,
. But mutuall render onely me for thee.
. Hence,thou subbornd Informer, a trew soule
. When most impeacht,stands least in thy controule.
.......................................................
. <= *26* =>
.
. {F o r} e t e r n i t y,W h i c h p r o u e s m o r e
. [S] h o r t t h e n w a s t o r r u i n i n g?H a u e
. [I] n o t s e e n e d w e l l e r s o n f o r m e a n
. [D] f a u o r L o s e a l l,a n d m o r e b y p a y i
. [N] g t o o m u c h r e n t F o r c o m p o u n d s w
. [E] e t;F o r g o i n g s i m p l e s a u o r,P i t t
. [I] f u l l t h r i u o r s i n t h e i r g a z i n g

{For}[SIDNEI] *26*
--------------------------------------------------------
. Sonnet 47

. BEtwixt mine eye and heart a league is tooke,
. And each doth good turnes now vnto the other,
. When that mine eye is famisht {For} a looke,
. Or heart in loue with [S]ighes himselfe doth smother;
. W[I]th my loues picture then my eye [D]oth feast,
. And to the painted ba[N]quet bids my heart:
. An other tim[E] mine eye is my hearts guest,
. And [I]n his thoughts of loue doth share a part.
. So either by thy picture or my loue,
. Thy seife away,are present still with me,
. For thou nor farther then my thoughts canst moue,
. And I am still with them,and they with thee.
. Or if they sleepe, thy picture in my sight
. Awakes my heart,to hearts and eyes delight.
.......................................................
. <= *26* =>
.
. {F o r} a l o o k e,O r h e a r t i n l o u e w i t h
. [S] i g h e s h i m s e l f e d o t h s m o t h e r;W
. [I] t h m y l o u e s p i c t u r e t h e n m y e y e
. [D] o t h f e a s t,A n d t o t h e p a i n t e d b a
. [N] q u e t b i d s m y h e a r t:A n o t h e r t i m
. [E] m i n e e y e i s m y h e a r t s g u e s t,A n d
. [I] n h i s t h o u g h t s
.
{For}[SIDNEI] *26*
.
Prob. of 2{For}[SIDNEI]s same skip ~ 1 in 34,000,000
--------------------------------------------------------
Post by Jim F.
Exist any ELS with a full name like "Philip Sidney"
or "Edward de Vere" in Shakespeare's works?
None that I've found.

Even your Hero Marlow got a little bent:
-------------------------------------------------------
Peirs Gaveston Earle of Cornwall
His life, death, and fortune.

by Drayton, Michael, 1563-1631.
.................................................
Or like th[E] twifold-twynned Geminy,
In their star-gilded [G]yrdle strongly tyed,
Chayn'd by their saffron[D] tresses in the sky,
Standing to guard the sun-c[O]che in his pride.
Like as the vine, his loue the E[L]me imbracing,
With nimble armes, our bodies in[T]erlacing.
.
[T.LODGE] -38

The Barrons hearing how I was arriVed,
And that my late abiurement naught preuailed,
By my returne, of all their hope depriued,
Theyr bedlam rage no longer now concealed:
But as hote coles once puffed with the wind,
Into a flame outbreaking by their kind.
Like to a man whose foote doth hap to light,
Into the nest where stinging Hornets ly,
Vext with the spleen, and rising with despight,
About his head these winged spirits fly.
Thus rise they up with mortall discontent,
*BY DEATH* to end {M}y life and b{A}nis[H]ment.
O{R} lik[E] to sou{L}die[R]s in a T{OW}ne [O]f war,
When Sentinell the enemy discries,
Affrighted with this unexpected iar,
All with the fearefull Larum-bell arise,
Thus muster they; (as Bees doe in a hyve,
The idle Drone out of their combes to dryve.)
..........................................
. <= 10 =>
.
. *B Y D E A T H* t o e
. n d {M} y l i f e a n
. d b {A} n i s [H] m e n
. t. O {R} l i k [E] t o s
. o u {L} d i e [R] s i n
. a T {O W} n e [O] f w a
. r,
----------------------------------------------
Post by Jim F.
Philip Sidney was painful for *25* days and freed on the 26th.
Sir Philip Sidney, who having his Horse slain under him,
and getting upon another, was shot into the thigh, and
*25* days after, in the flower of his age, died.
——A Chronicle of the Kings of England, 1670
He's a "painful warrior"; his full name is sealed in line 9 of sonnet
*25* via one-way anagram: "The painful warrior famoused for worth."
Finding the author of sonnet 25 may support this assumption, for
the right answer can reason every word of sonnet 25 to reach
"Whilst I whom fortune of such triumph bars" that spells
Christopher Marlowe, a Wilton House poet.
LEt those who are in fauor with their stars,[1]
Of publike honour and proud titles bost,
Whilst I whome fortune of such tryumph bars
Vnlookt for ioy in that I honour most;
Great Princes fauorites their faire leaues spread,[5]
But as the Marygold at the suns eye,
And in them-selues their pride lies buried,
For at a frowne they in their glory die.
The painefull warrier famosed for worth,[9]
After a thousand victories once foild,
Is from the booke of honour rased quite,
Then happy I that loue and am beloued [13]
Where I may not remoue, nor be remoued.
Line 6 spells Mary Sidney, hinted by "Marygold"; she is
Philip Sidney's sister and patroness of Wilton House poets.
Actually, every flower in _Sonnets_ projects someone to match
with its context. A good example is the six flowers in sonnet 99
that seal six names via one-way anagram, and the speaker tells
what sin each has done.
Perhaps.

Art Neuendorffer
marco
2017-02-26 23:28:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
Post by Jim F.
Selecting few lines from _Sonnets_ to support one's assumption of
Shakespeare, especially the true authorship, is backward reasoning.
-----------------------------------------------------
. http://tinyurl.com/ptpxsdu
.......................................................
. Sonnet 125
. WEr't ought to me I "bore the canopy",
. With my extern the outward honoring,
. Or layd great bases {For} eternity,
. Which proues more [S]hort then wast or ruining?
. Haue [I] not seene dwellers on forme an[D] fauor
. Lose all,and more by payi[N]g too much rent
. For compound sw[E]et;Forgoing simple sauor,
. Pitt[I]full thriuors in their gazing spent.
. Noe,let me be obsequious in thy heart,
. And take thou my oblacion,poore but free,
. Which is not mixt with seconds,knows no art,
. But mutuall render onely me for thee.
. Hence,thou subbornd Informer, a trew soule
. When most impeacht,stands least in thy controule.
.......................................................
. <= *26* =>
.
. {F o r} e t e r n i t y,W h i c h p r o u e s m o r e
. [S] h o r t t h e n w a s t o r r u i n i n g?H a u e
. [I] n o t s e e n e d w e l l e r s o n f o r m e a n
. [D] f a u o r L o s e a l l,a n d m o r e b y p a y i
. [N] g t o o m u c h r e n t F o r c o m p o u n d s w
. [E] e t;F o r g o i n g s i m p l e s a u o r,P i t t
. [I] f u l l t h r i u o r s i n t h e i r g a z i n g
{For}[SIDNEI] *26*
--------------------------------------------------------
. Sonnet 47
. BEtwixt mine eye and heart a league is tooke,
. And each doth good turnes now vnto the other,
. When that mine eye is famisht {For} a looke,
. Or heart in loue with [S]ighes himselfe doth smother;
. W[I]th my loues picture then my eye [D]oth feast,
. An other tim[E] mine eye is my hearts guest,
. And [I]n his thoughts of loue doth share a part.
. So either by thy picture or my loue,
. Thy seife away,are present still with me,
. For thou nor farther then my thoughts canst moue,
. And I am still with them,and they with thee.
. Or if they sleepe, thy picture in my sight
. Awakes my heart,to hearts and eyes delight.
.......................................................
. <= *26* =>
.
. {F o r} a l o o k e,O r h e a r t i n l o u e w i t h
. [S] i g h e s h i m s e l f e d o t h s m o t h e r;W
. [I] t h m y l o u e s p i c t u r e t h e n m y e y e
. [D] o t h f e a s t,A n d t o t h e p a i n t e d b a
. [N] q u e t b i d s m y h e a r t:A n o t h e r t i m
. [E] m i n e e y e i s m y h e a r t s g u e s t,A n d
. [I] n h i s t h o u g h t s
.
{For}[SIDNEI] *26*
.
Prob. of 2{For}[SIDNEI]s same skip ~ 1 in 34,000,000
--------------------------------------------------------
Post by Jim F.
Exist any ELS with a full name like "Philip Sidney"
or "Edward de Vere" in Shakespeare's works?
None that I've found.
-------------------------------------------------------
Peirs Gaveston Earle of Cornwall
His life, death, and fortune.
by Drayton, Michael, 1563-1631.
.................................................
Or like th[E] twifold-twynned Geminy,
In their star-gilded [G]yrdle strongly tyed,
Chayn'd by their saffron[D] tresses in the sky,
Standing to guard the sun-c[O]che in his pride.
Like as the vine, his loue the E[L]me imbracing,
With nimble armes, our bodies in[T]erlacing.
.
[T.LODGE] -38
The Barrons hearing how I was arriVed,
And that my late abiurement naught preuailed,
By my returne, of all their hope depriued,
But as hote coles once puffed with the wind,
Into a flame outbreaking by their kind.
Like to a man whose foote doth hap to light,
Into the nest where stinging Hornets ly,
Vext with the spleen, and rising with despight,
About his head these winged spirits fly.
Thus rise they up with mortall discontent,
*BY DEATH* to end {M}y life and b{A}nis[H]ment.
O{R} lik[E] to sou{L}die[R]s in a T{OW}ne [O]f war,
When Sentinell the enemy discries,
Affrighted with this unexpected iar,
All with the fearefull Larum-bell arise,
Thus muster they; (as Bees doe in a hyve,
The idle Drone out of their combes to dryve.)
..........................................
. <= 10 =>
.
. *B Y D E A T H* t o e
. n d {M} y l i f e a n
. d b {A} n i s [H] m e n
. t. O {R} l i k [E] t o s
. o u {L} d i e [R] s i n
. a T {O W} n e [O] f w a
. r,
----------------------------------------------
Post by Jim F.
Philip Sidney was painful for *25* days and freed on the 26th.
Sir Philip Sidney, who having his Horse slain under him,
and getting upon another, was shot into the thigh, and
*25* days after, in the flower of his age, died.
——A Chronicle of the Kings of England, 1670
He's a "painful warrior"; his full name is sealed in line 9 of sonnet
*25* via one-way anagram: "The painful warrior famoused for worth."
Finding the author of sonnet 25 may support this assumption, for
the right answer can reason every word of sonnet 25 to reach
"Whilst I whom fortune of such triumph bars" that spells
Christopher Marlowe, a Wilton House poet.
LEt those who are in fauor with their stars,[1]
Of publike honour and proud titles bost,
Whilst I whome fortune of such tryumph bars
Vnlookt for ioy in that I honour most;
Great Princes fauorites their faire leaues spread,[5]
But as the Marygold at the suns eye,
And in them-selues their pride lies buried,
For at a frowne they in their glory die.
The painefull warrier famosed for worth,[9]
After a thousand victories once foild,
Is from the booke of honour rased quite,
Then happy I that loue and am beloued [13]
Where I may not remoue, nor be remoued.
Line 6 spells Mary Sidney, hinted by "Marygold"; she is
Philip Sidney's sister and patroness of Wilton House poets.
Actually, every flower in _Sonnets_ projects someone to match
with its context. A good example is the six flowers in sonnet 99
that seal six names via one-way anagram, and the speaker tells
what sin each has done.
Perhaps.
Art Neuendorffer
.
marco
2017-03-03 18:13:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
Post by Jim F.
Selecting few lines from _Sonnets_ to support one's assumption of
Shakespeare, especially the true authorship, is backward reasoning.
-----------------------------------------------------
. http://tinyurl.com/ptpxsdu
.......................................................
. Sonnet 125
. WEr't ought to me I "bore the canopy",
. With my extern the outward honoring,
. Or layd great bases {For} eternity,
. Which proues more [S]hort then wast or ruining?
. Haue [I] not seene dwellers on forme an[D] fauor
. Lose all,and more by payi[N]g too much rent
. For compound sw[E]et;Forgoing simple sauor,
. Pitt[I]full thriuors in their gazing spent.
. Noe,let me be obsequious in thy heart,
. And take thou my oblacion,poore but free,
. Which is not mixt with seconds,knows no art,
. But mutuall render onely me for thee.
. Hence,thou subbornd Informer, a trew soule
. When most impeacht,stands least in thy controule.
.......................................................
. <= *26* =>
.
. {F o r} e t e r n i t y,W h i c h p r o u e s m o r e
. [S] h o r t t h e n w a s t o r r u i n i n g?H a u e
. [I] n o t s e e n e d w e l l e r s o n f o r m e a n
. [D] f a u o r L o s e a l l,a n d m o r e b y p a y i
. [N] g t o o m u c h r e n t F o r c o m p o u n d s w
. [E] e t;F o r g o i n g s i m p l e s a u o r,P i t t
. [I] f u l l t h r i u o r s i n t h e i r g a z i n g
{For}[SIDNEI] *26*
--------------------------------------------------------
. Sonnet 47
. BEtwixt mine eye and heart a league is tooke,
. And each doth good turnes now vnto the other,
. When that mine eye is famisht {For} a looke,
. Or heart in loue with [S]ighes himselfe doth smother;
. W[I]th my loues picture then my eye [D]oth feast,
. An other tim[E] mine eye is my hearts guest,
. And [I]n his thoughts of loue doth share a part.
. So either by thy picture or my loue,
. Thy seife away,are present still with me,
. For thou nor farther then my thoughts canst moue,
. And I am still with them,and they with thee.
. Or if they sleepe, thy picture in my sight
. Awakes my heart,to hearts and eyes delight.
.......................................................
. <= *26* =>
.
. {F o r} a l o o k e,O r h e a r t i n l o u e w i t h
. [S] i g h e s h i m s e l f e d o t h s m o t h e r;W
. [I] t h m y l o u e s p i c t u r e t h e n m y e y e
. [D] o t h f e a s t,A n d t o t h e p a i n t e d b a
. [N] q u e t b i d s m y h e a r t:A n o t h e r t i m
. [E] m i n e e y e i s m y h e a r t s g u e s t,A n d
. [I] n h i s t h o u g h t s
.
{For}[SIDNEI] *26*
.
Prob. of 2{For}[SIDNEI]s same skip ~ 1 in 34,000,000
--------------------------------------------------------
Post by Jim F.
Exist any ELS with a full name like "Philip Sidney"
or "Edward de Vere" in Shakespeare's works?
None that I've found.
-------------------------------------------------------
Peirs Gaveston Earle of Cornwall
His life, death, and fortune.
by Drayton, Michael, 1563-1631.
.................................................
Or like th[E] twifold-twynned Geminy,
In their star-gilded [G]yrdle strongly tyed,
Chayn'd by their saffron[D] tresses in the sky,
Standing to guard the sun-c[O]che in his pride.
Like as the vine, his loue the E[L]me imbracing,
With nimble armes, our bodies in[T]erlacing.
.
[T.LODGE] -38
The Barrons hearing how I was arriVed,
And that my late abiurement naught preuailed,
By my returne, of all their hope depriued,
But as hote coles once puffed with the wind,
Into a flame outbreaking by their kind.
Like to a man whose foote doth hap to light,
Into the nest where stinging Hornets ly,
Vext with the spleen, and rising with despight,
About his head these winged spirits fly.
Thus rise they up with mortall discontent,
*BY DEATH* to end {M}y life and b{A}nis[H]ment.
O{R} lik[E] to sou{L}die[R]s in a T{OW}ne [O]f war,
When Sentinell the enemy discries,
Affrighted with this unexpected iar,
All with the fearefull Larum-bell arise,
Thus muster they; (as Bees doe in a hyve,
The idle Drone out of their combes to dryve.)
..........................................
. <= 10 =>
.
. *B Y D E A T H* t o e
. n d {M} y l i f e a n
. d b {A} n i s [H] m e n
. t. O {R} l i k [E] t o s
. o u {L} d i e [R] s i n
. a T {O W} n e [O] f w a
. r,
----------------------------------------------
Post by Jim F.
Philip Sidney was painful for *25* days and freed on the 26th.
Sir Philip Sidney, who having his Horse slain under him,
and getting upon another, was shot into the thigh, and
*25* days after, in the flower of his age, died.
——A Chronicle of the Kings of England, 1670
He's a "painful warrior"; his full name is sealed in line 9 of sonnet
*25* via one-way anagram: "The painful warrior famoused for worth."
Finding the author of sonnet 25 may support this assumption, for
the right answer can reason every word of sonnet 25 to reach
"Whilst I whom fortune of such triumph bars" that spells
Christopher Marlowe, a Wilton House poet.
LEt those who are in fauor with their stars,[1]
Of publike honour and proud titles bost,
Whilst I whome fortune of such tryumph bars
Vnlookt for ioy in that I honour most;
Great Princes fauorites their faire leaues spread,[5]
But as the Marygold at the suns eye,
And in them-selues their pride lies buried,
For at a frowne they in their glory die.
The painefull warrier famosed for worth,[9]
After a thousand victories once foild,
Is from the booke of honour rased quite,
Then happy I that loue and am beloued [13]
Where I may not remoue, nor be remoued.
Line 6 spells Mary Sidney, hinted by "Marygold"; she is
Philip Sidney's sister and patroness of Wilton House poets.
Actually, every flower in _Sonnets_ projects someone to match
with its context. A good example is the six flowers in sonnet 99
that seal six names via one-way anagram, and the speaker tells
what sin each has done.
Perhaps.
Art Neuendorffer
.
.
A***@germanymail.com
2017-03-05 19:11:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
Post by Jim F.
Selecting few lines from _Sonnets_ to support one's assumption of
Shakespeare, especially the true authorship, is backward reasoning.
-----------------------------------------------------
. http://tinyurl.com/ptpxsdu
.......................................................
. Sonnet 125
. WEr't ought to me I "bore the canopy",
. With my extern the outward honoring,
. Or layd great bases {For} eternity,
. Which proues more [S]hort then wast or ruining?
. Haue [I] not seene dwellers on forme an[D] fauor
. Lose all,and more by payi[N]g too much rent
. For compound sw[E]et;Forgoing simple sauor,
. Pitt[I]full thriuors in their gazing spent.
. Noe,let me be obsequious in thy heart,
. And take thou my oblacion,poore but free,
. Which is not mixt with seconds,knows no art,
. But mutuall render onely me for thee.
. Hence,thou subbornd Informer, a trew soule
. When most impeacht,stands least in thy controule.
.......................................................
. <= *26* =>
.
. {F o r} e t e r n i t y,W h i c h p r o u e s m o r e
. [S] h o r t t h e n w a s t o r r u i n i n g?H a u e
. [I] n o t s e e n e d w e l l e r s o n f o r m e a n
. [D] f a u o r L o s e a l l,a n d m o r e b y p a y i
. [N] g t o o m u c h r e n t F o r c o m p o u n d s w
. [E] e t;F o r g o i n g s i m p l e s a u o r,P i t t
. [I] f u l l t h r i u o r s i n t h e i r g a z i n g
{For}[SIDNEI] *26*
--------------------------------------------------------
. Sonnet 47
. BEtwixt mine eye and heart a league is tooke,
. And each doth good turnes now vnto the other,
. When that mine eye is famisht {For} a looke,
. Or heart in loue with [S]ighes himselfe doth smother;
. W[I]th my loues picture then my eye [D]oth feast,
. An other tim[E] mine eye is my hearts guest,
. And [I]n his thoughts of loue doth share a part.
. So either by thy picture or my loue,
. Thy seife away,are present still with me,
. For thou nor farther then my thoughts canst moue,
. And I am still with them,and they with thee.
. Or if they sleepe, thy picture in my sight
. Awakes my heart,to hearts and eyes delight.
.......................................................
. <= *26* =>
.
. {F o r} a l o o k e,O r h e a r t i n l o u e w i t h
. [S] i g h e s h i m s e l f e d o t h s m o t h e r;W
. [I] t h m y l o u e s p i c t u r e t h e n m y e y e
. [D] o t h f e a s t,A n d t o t h e p a i n t e d b a
. [N] q u e t b i d s m y h e a r t:A n o t h e r t i m
. [E] m i n e e y e i s m y h e a r t s g u e s t,A n d
. [I] n h i s t h o u g h t s
.
{For}[SIDNEI] *26*
.
Prob. of 2{For}[SIDNEI]s same skip ~ 1 in 34,000,000
--------------------------------------------------------
Post by Jim F.
Exist any ELS with a full name like "Philip Sidney"
or "Edward de Vere" in Shakespeare's works?
None that I've found.
-------------------------------------------------------
Peirs Gaveston Earle of Cornwall
His life, death, and fortune.
by Drayton, Michael, 1563-1631.
.................................................
Or like th[E] twifold-twynned Geminy,
In their star-gilded [G]yrdle strongly tyed,
Chayn'd by their saffron[D] tresses in the sky,
Standing to guard the sun-c[O]che in his pride.
Like as the vine, his loue the E[L]me imbracing,
With nimble armes, our bodies in[T]erlacing.
.
[T.LODGE] -38
The Barrons hearing how I was arriVed,
And that my late abiurement naught preuailed,
By my returne, of all their hope depriued,
But as hote coles once puffed with the wind,
Into a flame outbreaking by their kind.
Like to a man whose foote doth hap to light,
Into the nest where stinging Hornets ly,
Vext with the spleen, and rising with despight,
About his head these winged spirits fly.
Thus rise they up with mortall discontent,
*BY DEATH* to end {M}y life and b{A}nis[H]ment.
O{R} lik[E] to sou{L}die[R]s in a T{OW}ne [O]f war,
When Sentinell the enemy discries,
Affrighted with this unexpected iar,
All with the fearefull Larum-bell arise,
Thus muster they; (as Bees doe in a hyve,
The idle Drone out of their combes to dryve.)
..........................................
. <= 10 =>
.
. *B Y D E A T H* t o e
. n d {M} y l i f e a n
. d b {A} n i s [H] m e n
. t. O {R} l i k [E] t o s
. o u {L} d i e [R] s i n
. a T {O W} n e [O] f w a
. r,
----------------------------------------------
Post by Jim F.
Philip Sidney was painful for *25* days and freed on the 26th.
Sir Philip Sidney, who having his Horse slain under him,
and getting upon another, was shot into the thigh, and
*25* days after, in the flower of his age, died.
——A Chronicle of the Kings of England, 1670
He's a "painful warrior"; his full name is sealed in line 9 of sonnet
*25* via one-way anagram: "The painful warrior famoused for worth."
Finding the author of sonnet 25 may support this assumption, for
the right answer can reason every word of sonnet 25 to reach
"Whilst I whom fortune of such triumph bars" that spells
Christopher Marlowe, a Wilton House poet.
LEt those who are in fauor with their stars,[1]
Of publike honour and proud titles bost,
Whilst I whome fortune of such tryumph bars
Vnlookt for ioy in that I honour most;
Great Princes fauorites their faire leaues spread,[5]
But as the Marygold at the suns eye,
And in them-selues their pride lies buried,
For at a frowne they in their glory die.
The painefull warrier famosed for worth,[9]
After a thousand victories once foild,
Is from the booke of honour rased quite,
Then happy I that loue and am beloued [13]
Where I may not remoue, nor be remoued.
Line 6 spells Mary Sidney, hinted by "Marygold"; she is
Philip Sidney's sister and patroness of Wilton House poets.
Actually, every flower in _Sonnets_ projects someone to match
with its context. A good example is the six flowers in sonnet 99
that seal six names via one-way anagram, and the speaker tells
what sin each has done.
Perhaps.
Art Neuendorffer
.
.
Art N
Jim F.
2017-03-24 04:34:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Abductive reasoning is used in artificial intelligence.
To solve the Shakespeare authorship question,
my way (and the best way I believe) will be,
to think like a machine, primitively and logically,
or to ask the right question a machine can process.

I build my own machine. Machine needs rules.
Rules are initiated by questions.
A question with best explanation is a right question,
and eventually a rule. How to determine the best is the key; e.g.
a full name is always better than just a family name in coding.

Following lines are hard or meaningless for human,
but machine thinks differently.

CHRISTOPHER SLY.
What would you make me mad?
Am not I _Christopher Sly_,
old Sly's son of Burton-heath,
by birth a Peddler, by education a Cardmaker,
by transmutation a Bear-herd,
and now by present profession a Tinker.
Ask _Marrian Hacket_ the fat Alewife of Wincot, if she know me not:
if she say I am not xiiii.d. on the score for sheer Ale,
score me up for the lyingst knave in Christendom.
What I am not bestraught: here's--

Why Shakespeare used the name Marrian Hacket or Wincot?
Why Christendom?
marco
2017-03-24 16:47:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jim F.
Abductive reasoning is used in artificial intelligence.
To solve the Shakespeare authorship question,
my way (and the best way I believe) will be,
to think like a machine, primitively and logically,
or to ask the right question a machine can process.
I build my own machine. Machine needs rules.
Rules are initiated by questions.
A question with best explanation is a right question,
and eventually a rule. How to determine the best is the key; e.g.
a full name is always better than just a family name in coding.
Following lines are hard or meaningless for human,
but machine thinks differently.
CHRISTOPHER SLY.
What would you make me mad?
Am not I _Christopher Sly_,
old Sly's son of Burton-heath,
by birth a Peddler, by education a Cardmaker,
by transmutation a Bear-herd,
and now by present profession a Tinker.
if she say I am not xiiii.d. on the score for sheer Ale,
score me up for the lyingst knave in Christendom.
What I am not bestraught: here's--
Why Shakespeare used the name Marrian Hacket or Wincot?
Why Christendom?
.
Jim F.
2017-03-30 01:44:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Camel, Weasel, Whale.
Why Shakespeare selects the three in _Hamlet_?

A simple observation (or a machine may think first):
- They all contain letter a, e, l.
- cAMEL, wEAsEL, wHALE all have four letters in HAMLEt.
- One can find letter m, t, h around Weasel to spell Hamlet:
HAMLET. Methinks it is like a Weasel. (MeTHinks wEAseL)
The same for Camel and Whale.

Camel-Weasel-Whale is a riddle.
It shows that "Hamlet" contains major spelling of the three.
This may imply Hamlet owns the major nature of them,
but the selection focuses more on spelling,
which demonstrates how one-way anagram works in Shakespeare.

This is the best explanation for Hamlet's Camel-Weasel-Whale,
unless you can find another.
Jim F.
2017-04-12 02:12:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Best way to know a coding method well is to redo it.
A line like "Care less troll-nut-trash to find more jewels"
to seal three names can be framed in minutes.

Shakespeare seals names via one-way anagram in two steps:

1) Use letters of the target's name to find key words that can
fit his behavior or character, e.g. trash from Arthur.

2) Complete the target's name by filling the missing letters
around those key words, e.g. nut-trash to spell Arthur.

If this can be based on some well-known source would be the best.

Jewel and Trash

IAGO.
Good name in Man, and woman (dear my Lord) [1]
Is the immediate *Jewel* of their Souls;
Who steal my purse, steal *trash*:[3]
It's something, nothing;
It was mine, it's his, and has been slave to thousands:[5]
But he that filches from me my good Name,
Robs me of that, which not enriches him,[7]
And makes me poor indeed.

[3] purse: wealth (OED 2a); a poet's wealth is his verse.
[3] Who steal my purse: spells Christopher Marlowe except letter c.
[5] mine: Marlowe's verse.
[5] thousands: the audience, readers.
[6] filches: someone fil_c_hes Marlowe's good name.
[7, 8] him, And makes me poor: spells Shakespeare (makes, poor).
[8] indeed: a wordplay of _in deed_; "indeed" is taken from Sidney.
[8] makes me poor indeed: spells Mary Sidney, who makes Marlowe
poor in deed.
It's Mary Sidney's Shakespeare that filches Marlowe's good name.

Over a thousand such anagrams exist in Shakespeare's works.
They realize the first fuzzy logic in literature, well-planned.
marco
2017-04-13 02:21:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jim F.
Best way to know a coding method well is to redo it.
A line like "Care less troll-nut-trash to find more jewels"
to seal three names can be framed in minutes.
1) Use letters of the target's name to find key words that can
fit his behavior or character, e.g. trash from Arthur.
2) Complete the target's name by filling the missing letters
around those key words, e.g. nut-trash to spell Arthur.
If this can be based on some well-known source would be the best.
Jewel and Trash
IAGO.
Good name in Man, and woman (dear my Lord) [1]
Is the immediate *Jewel* of their Souls;
Who steal my purse, steal *trash*:[3]
It's something, nothing;
It was mine, it's his, and has been slave to thousands:[5]
But he that filches from me my good Name,
Robs me of that, which not enriches him,[7]
And makes me poor indeed.
[3] purse: wealth (OED 2a); a poet's wealth is his verse.
[3] Who steal my purse: spells Christopher Marlowe except letter c.
[5] mine: Marlowe's verse.
[5] thousands: the audience, readers.
[6] filches: someone fil_c_hes Marlowe's good name.
[7, 8] him, And makes me poor: spells Shakespeare (makes, poor).
[8] indeed: a wordplay of _in deed_; "indeed" is taken from Sidney.
[8] makes me poor indeed: spells Mary Sidney, who makes Marlowe
poor in deed.
It's Mary Sidney's Shakespeare that filches Marlowe's good name.
Over a thousand such anagrams exist in Shakespeare's works.
They realize the first fuzzy logic in literature, well-planned.
.
Jim F.
2017-05-12 00:53:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
marco,

Shakespeare would "fell" a name for fun, a hint for his one-way anagram.
See how Judas becomes Jude-ass:

HOLOF. Judas I am.
DUMAI. A Judas?
. . .
BOYET. Therefore as he is, an Ass, let him go:
And so adieu sweet Jude. Nay, why dost thou stay?
DUMAI. For the latter end of his name.
BEROW. For the Ass to the Jude: give it him. Jud-as away.
(Holofernes was beheaded by Judith.)

This kind of wordplay is easy to make, in seconds; e.g.
Jim Carroll == I'm a carl-troll.
Carl is a bondman, a villain, a churl (OED).

Philip Sidney promoted this method by calling himself
"Philisides, the shepheard good and true."
People have no doubt that Philisides is Philip Sidney.

Any question, marco?
A***@germanymail.com
2017-05-12 16:52:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jim F.
marco,
Shakespeare would "fell" a name for fun, a hint for his one-way anagram.
HOLOF. Judas I am.
DUMAI. A Judas?
. . .
And so adieu sweet Jude. Nay, why dost thou stay?
DUMAI. For the latter end of his name.
BEROW. For the Ass to the Jude: give it him. Jud-as away.
(Holofernes was beheaded by Judith.)
This kind of wordplay is easy to make, in seconds; e.g.
Jim Carroll == I'm a carl-troll.
Carl is a bondman, a villain, a churl (OED).
Philip Sidney promoted this method by calling himself
"Philisides, the shepheard good and true."
People have no doubt that Philisides is Philip Sidney.
Any question, marco?
Art N
marco
2017-05-14 00:19:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Philip Sidney promoted this method by calling himself
"Philisides, the shepheard good and true."
People have no doubt that Philisides is Philip Sidney.


i don't see anything about this promotion...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Sidney

marc
A***@germanymail.com
2017-05-14 19:36:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jim F.
Philip Sidney promoted this method by calling himself
"Philisides, the shepheard good and true."
People have no doubt that Philisides is Philip Sidney.
i don't see anything about this promotion...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Sidney
marc
Art N
Jim F.
2017-05-18 17:26:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jim F.
Philip Sidney promoted this method by calling himself
"Philisides, the shepheard good and true."
People have no doubt that Philisides is Philip Sidney.
i don't see anything about this promotion...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Sidney
marc
It's hard to see, but not impossible.
A short list of Shakespeare's life from 1577 to 1743:
- Philip Sidney promoted one-way anagram since 1577;
- Mary Sidney continued after her brother's death in 1586;
- She and Wilton poets and Edward de Vere created Shakespeare around 1590;
- William Shakespeare was their frontman, poisoned by Ben Jonson in 1616;
- The Herberts maintained the art till 1743.

Major works:

1577, Philip Sidney's Song of Accession Day Tile (the first one-way anagram)
1579, The Shephearses Calender (full of anagrams)
1592, Green's Groat's-Worth of Wit (Edward de Vere in the story)
1593, The Countess of Pembroke's Arcadia
1609, Shake-speares Sonnets (many by Christopher Marlowe)
????, The Birth of Merlin (Edward de Vere again)
1623, Shakespeare's First Folio
1743, Shakespeare Statue in Wilton House

Wilton poets made over 1,000 anagrams, few shown here:
http://wordplay-shakespeare.blogspot.com/2015/11/the-beginning-and-end-of-shakespeare.html

Shakespeare is much greater than the world can imagine today.
Wilton House will replace Stratford-upon-Avon, good for the UK.
Any question?
A***@germanymail.com
2017-05-18 18:08:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jim F.
Post by Jim F.
Philip Sidney promoted this method by calling himself
"Philisides, the shepheard good and true."
People have no doubt that Philisides is Philip Sidney.
i don't see anything about this promotion...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Sidney
marc
It's hard to see, but not impossible.
- Philip Sidney promoted one-way anagram since 1577;
- Mary Sidney continued after her brother's death in 1586;
- She and Wilton poets and Edward de Vere created Shakespeare around 1590;
- William Shakespeare was their frontman, poisoned by Ben Jonson in 1616;
- The Herberts maintained the art till 1743.
1577, Philip Sidney's Song of Accession Day Tile (the first one-way anagram)
1579, The Shephearses Calender (full of anagrams)
1592, Green's Groat's-Worth of Wit (Edward de Vere in the story)
1593, The Countess of Pembroke's Arcadia
1609, Shake-speares Sonnets (many by Christopher Marlowe)
????, The Birth of Merlin (Edward de Vere again)
1623, Shakespeare's First Folio
1743, Shakespeare Statue in Wilton House
http://wordplay-shakespeare.blogspot.com/2015/11/the-beginning-and-end-of-shakespeare.html
Shakespeare is much greater than the world can imagine today.
Wilton House will replace Stratford-upon-Avon, good for the UK.
Any question?
Art N
Jim F.
2017-07-21 03:47:38 UTC
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Post by Jim F.
Philip Sidney promoted this method by calling himself
"Philisides, the shepheard good and true."
People have no doubt that Philisides is Philip Sidney.
i don't see anything about this promotion...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Sidney
marc
marco (or Art. N, or Jim Carroll, or James D Carroll, or ...) ,

Still can't see?

Philip Sidney created one-way anagram in his Song for an
Accession Day Tilt (1577). In the song, Philisides and Mira
can easily spell Philip Sidney and Mary.

Next important issue is The Shepheardes Calender (TSC, 1579).
All names in TSC are carefully selected based on Sidney's method.
One quick example is the tale of the Oak and the Brier.

Which made this *foolish Brier* wex so bold,
That on a time he cast him to scold,
And sneb the *good Oak*, for he was old. (TSC, February)

"Foolish Brier" can spell _Frier_. Frier is an obsolete form of Friar.

"Good Oak" can spell _God_. Oak is an obsolete form of yoke.
This can be affirmed by Palinode's lines:

Good is no good, but if it be spend:
God giveth good for none other end. (TSC, May)

So what is that "Husbandman" that cuts the "good Oak"?
It's _Human_.
A***@germanymail.com
2017-07-21 16:48:07 UTC
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Post by Jim F.
Post by Jim F.
Philip Sidney promoted this method by calling himself
"Philisides, the shepheard good and true."
People have no doubt that Philisides is Philip Sidney.
i don't see anything about this promotion...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Sidney
marc
marco (or Art. N, or Jim Carroll, or James D Carroll, or ...) ,
Still can't see?
Philip Sidney created one-way anagram in his Song for an
Accession Day Tilt (1577). In the song, Philisides and Mira
can easily spell Philip Sidney and Mary.
Next important issue is The Shepheardes Calender (TSC, 1579).
All names in TSC are carefully selected based on Sidney's method.
One quick example is the tale of the Oak and the Brier.
Which made this *foolish Brier* wex so bold,
That on a time he cast him to scold,
And sneb the *good Oak*, for he was old. (TSC, February)
"Foolish Brier" can spell _Frier_. Frier is an obsolete form of Friar.
"Good Oak" can spell _God_. Oak is an obsolete form of yoke.
God giveth good for none other end. (TSC, May)
So what is that "Husbandman" that cuts the "good Oak"?
It's _Human_.
Art N
Don
2017-07-24 03:26:36 UTC
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Post by Jim F.
Post by Jim F.
Philip Sidney promoted this method by calling himself
"Philisides, the shepheard good and true."
People have no doubt that Philisides is Philip Sidney.
i don't see anything about this promotion...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Sidney
marc
marco (or Art. N, or Jim Carroll, or James D Carroll, or ...) ,
Still can't see?
Philip Sidney created one-way anagram in his Song for an
Accession Day Tilt (1577). In the song, Philisides and Mira
can easily spell Philip Sidney and Mary.
Next important issue is The Shepheardes Calender (TSC, 1579).
All names in TSC are carefully selected based on Sidney's method.
One quick example is the tale of the Oak and the Brier.
Which made this *foolish Brier* wex so bold,
That on a time he cast him to scold,
And sneb the *good Oak*, for he was old. (TSC, February)
"Foolish Brier" can spell _Frier_. Frier is an obsolete form of Friar.
"Good Oak" can spell _God_. Oak is an obsolete form of yoke.
God giveth good for none other end. (TSC, May)
So what is that "Husbandman" that cuts the "good Oak"?
It's _Human_.
All these doubtful links to the Sidneys, which would seem to require at least one or two conspiracies. But can you support any of this? I doubt if Stratman every attended the Mary Sidney Circle. Probably wasn't at Wilton House except with his players, who camped outside. bookburn
Jim F.
2017-07-24 10:34:09 UTC
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On Monday, July 24, 2017 at 11:26:37 AM UTC+8, Don wrote:
. . .
Post by Don
All these doubtful links to the Sidneys, which would seem to require at least one or two conspiracies. But can you support any of this? I doubt if Stratman every attended the Mary Sidney Circle. Probably wasn't at Wilton House except with his players, who camped outside. bookburn
Don,

Do you have better explanation for the Oak and Brier and Husbandman?
marco
2017-07-24 13:34:33 UTC
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reasoning

How now, sir? what are you reasoning with yourself? The Two Gentlemen of Verona: II, i

Cripple. but this reasoning is not in the fashion to Merchant of Venice: I, ii


William Shakespeare, writer
Don
2017-07-24 22:53:40 UTC
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Post by Jim F.
. . .
Post by Don
All these doubtful links to the Sidneys, which would seem to require at least one or two conspiracies. But can you support any of this? I doubt if Stratman every attended the Mary Sidney Circle. Probably wasn't at Wilton House except with his players, who camped outside. bookburn
Don,
Do you have better explanation for the Oak and Brier and Husbandman?
I'm sure he did reference Sidney in TSC. Irony, again, that in the same TSC some say Spencer references Stratman, too? I doubt that such allusion is a form of conspiracy or anagram, but maybe just following the contemporary preference for anonymity. Sidney wrote anonymously, too.
Jim F.
2017-07-25 12:29:41 UTC
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Post by Don
Post by Jim F.
. . .
Post by Don
All these doubtful links to the Sidneys, which would seem to require at least one or two conspiracies. But can you support any of this? I doubt if Stratman every attended the Mary Sidney Circle. Probably wasn't at Wilton House except with his players, who camped outside. bookburn
Don,
Do you have better explanation for the Oak and Brier and Husbandman?
I'm sure he did reference Sidney in TSC. Irony, again, that in the same TSC some say Spencer references Stratman, too? I doubt that such allusion is a form of conspiracy or anagram, but maybe just following the contemporary preference for anonymity. Sidney wrote anonymously, too.
Don,

Do you accept that one-way anagrams exist in Shakespeare's works?
A***@germanymail.com
2017-07-26 17:04:58 UTC
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Post by Jim F.
Post by Don
Post by Jim F.
. . .
Post by Don
All these doubtful links to the Sidneys, which would seem to require at least one or two conspiracies. But can you support any of this? I doubt if Stratman every attended the Mary Sidney Circle. Probably wasn't at Wilton House except with his players, who camped outside. bookburn
Don,
Do you have better explanation for the Oak and Brier and Husbandman?
I'm sure he did reference Sidney in TSC. Irony, again, that in the same TSC some say Spencer references Stratman, too? I doubt that such allusion is a form of conspiracy or anagram, but maybe just following the contemporary preference for anonymity. Sidney wrote anonymously, too.
Don,
Do you accept that one-way anagrams exist in Shakespeare's works?
Art Neuendorffer
Don
2017-07-26 17:28:44 UTC
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Post by Jim F.
Post by Don
Post by Jim F.
. . .
Post by Don
All these doubtful links to the Sidneys, which would seem to require at least one or two conspiracies. But can you support any of this? I doubt if Stratman every attended the Mary Sidney Circle. Probably wasn't at Wilton House except with his players, who camped outside. bookburn
Don,
Do you have better explanation for the Oak and Brier and Husbandman?
I'm sure he did reference Sidney in TSC. Irony, again, that in the same TSC some say Spencer references Stratman, too? I doubt that such allusion is a form of conspiracy or anagram, but maybe just following the contemporary preference for anonymity. Sidney wrote anonymously, too.
Don,
Do you accept that one-way anagrams exist in Shakespeare's works?
Yes, but in terms of probabilities, I suppose you have to factor in how it could happen by accident? Once I was reading a paperback book and noticed a straight line of spaces occurring normally between words. Line was very long, about four inches across a page. Chance of that happening seems very distant, like one in a million? Then, too, it seems possible that a Shakespeare could toss off anagrams practically unconsciously. See "unconscious writing" for stuff like that. Even something called "reverse writing," where someone thinks he can "read" another text by reversing the word order; play Beatles records backwards, etc..
A***@germanymail.com
2017-07-26 20:51:45 UTC
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Post by Don
Post by Jim F.
Post by Don
Post by Jim F.
. . .
Post by Don
All these doubtful links to the Sidneys, which would seem to require at least one or two conspiracies. But can you support any of this? I doubt if Stratman every attended the Mary Sidney Circle. Probably wasn't at Wilton House except with his players, who camped outside. bookburn
Don,
Do you have better explanation for the Oak and Brier and Husbandman?
I'm sure he did reference Sidney in TSC. Irony, again, that in the same TSC some say Spencer references Stratman, too? I doubt that such allusion is a form of conspiracy or anagram, but maybe just following the contemporary preference for anonymity. Sidney wrote anonymously, too.
Don,
Do you accept that one-way anagrams exist in Shakespeare's works?
Yes, but in terms of probabilities, I suppose you have to factor in how it could happen by accident? Once I was reading a paperback book and noticed a straight line of spaces occurring normally between words. Line was very long, about four inches across a page. Chance of that happening seems very distant, like one in a million? Then, too, it seems possible that a Shakespeare could toss off anagrams practically unconsciously. See "unconscious writing" for stuff like that. Even something called "reverse writing," where someone thinks he can "read" another text by reversing the word order; play Beatles records backwards, etc.
Art Neuendorffer
Jim F.
2017-07-28 01:46:30 UTC
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Post by Don
Post by Jim F.
Do you accept that one-way anagrams exist in Shakespeare's works?
Yes, but in terms of probabilities, I suppose you have to factor in how it could happen by accident? Once I was reading a paperback book and noticed a straight line of spaces occurring normally between words. Line was very long, about four inches across a page. Chance of that happening seems very distant, like one in a million? Then, too, it seems possible that a Shakespeare could toss off anagrams practically unconsciously. See "unconscious writing" for stuff like that. Even something called "reverse writing," where someone thinks he can "read" another text by reversing the word order; play Beatles records backwards, etc..
My target is to solve difficult lines, using (one-way) anagram
and other devices being ignored by the world.
Shakespeare's works written by Wilton House poets
is just one of the outcomes.

To evaluate an anagram or any other method,
the first question should be,
can that make the reading better?

The next is to build enough samples.
I've solved over a thousand anagrams.
Quantity isn't the main issue,
but the logic to find them. In modern terms,
it's a cycle of abductive, deductive and inductive reasoning.
Fuzzy logic can be applied to here too.
A***@germanymail.com
2017-07-28 15:38:16 UTC
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Post by Jim F.
Post by Don
Post by Jim F.
Do you accept that one-way anagrams exist in Shakespeare's works?
Yes, but in terms of probabilities, I suppose you have to factor in how it could happen by accident? Once I was reading a paperback book and noticed a straight line of spaces occurring normally between words. Line was very long, about four inches across a page. Chance of that happening seems very distant, like one in a million? Then, too, it seems possible that a Shakespeare could toss off anagrams practically unconsciously. See "unconscious writing" for stuff like that. Even something called "reverse writing," where someone thinks he can "read" another text by reversing the word order; play Beatles records backwards, etc..
My target is to solve difficult lines, using (one-way) anagram
and other devices being ignored by the world.
Shakespeare's works written by Wilton House poets
is just one of the outcomes.
To evaluate an anagram or any other method,
the first question should be,
can that make the reading better?
The next is to build enough samples.
I've solved over a thousand anagrams.
Quantity isn't the main issue,
but the logic to find them. In modern terms,
it's a cycle of abductive, deductive and inductive reasoning.
Fuzzy logic can be applied to here too.
Art Neuendorffer
Don
2017-07-28 18:51:15 UTC
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Post by Jim F.
Post by Don
Post by Jim F.
Do you accept that one-way anagrams exist in Shakespeare's works?
Yes, but in terms of probabilities, I suppose you have to factor in how it could happen by accident? Once I was reading a paperback book and noticed a straight line of spaces occurring normally between words. Line was very long, about four inches across a page. Chance of that happening seems very distant, like one in a million? Then, too, it seems possible that a Shakespeare could toss off anagrams practically unconsciously. See "unconscious writing" for stuff like that. Even something called "reverse writing," where someone thinks he can "read" another text by reversing the word order; play Beatles records backwards, etc..
My target is to solve difficult lines, using (one-way) anagram
and other devices being ignored by the world.
Shakespeare's works written by Wilton House poets
is just one of the outcomes.
To evaluate an anagram or any other method,
the first question should be,
can that make the reading better?
The next is to build enough samples.
I've solved over a thousand anagrams.
Quantity isn't the main issue,
but the logic to find them. In modern terms,
it's a cycle of abductive, deductive and inductive reasoning.
Fuzzy logic can be applied to here too.
And we know that in Shakespeare's day, scientists like Bacon wrote and published an entire book on cyphers, that all the courts used secrets of letter writing that read like anagrams, and it's very possible that Shakespeare, himself, was part of the secret service community.

Problem, though, seems to be that we don't have clues about why Shakespeare would include secret messages, hidden levels of meaning in his works. Let's see; maybe he wrote secretly in plays that would be spoken by troupes traveling in sensitive countries, and receivers never revealed? Or would he have been writing with anagrams that would establish him in future as the real author, for reasons of ego and poetic fame? Did this get added before, during, or after the FF was edited? Or would the same purpose be accomplished in a separate document by Shakespeare or another author?
Jim F.
2017-07-29 03:14:43 UTC
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Post by Don
Post by Jim F.
Post by Don
Post by Jim F.
Do you accept that one-way anagrams exist in Shakespeare's works?
Yes, but in terms of probabilities, I suppose you have to factor in how it could happen by accident? Once I was reading a paperback book and noticed a straight line of spaces occurring normally between words. Line was very long, about four inches across a page. Chance of that happening seems very distant, like one in a million? Then, too, it seems possible that a Shakespeare could toss off anagrams practically unconsciously. See "unconscious writing" for stuff like that. Even something called "reverse writing," where someone thinks he can "read" another text by reversing the word order; play Beatles records backwards, etc..
My target is to solve difficult lines, using (one-way) anagram
and other devices being ignored by the world.
Shakespeare's works written by Wilton House poets
is just one of the outcomes.
To evaluate an anagram or any other method,
the first question should be,
can that make the reading better?
The next is to build enough samples.
I've solved over a thousand anagrams.
Quantity isn't the main issue,
but the logic to find them. In modern terms,
it's a cycle of abductive, deductive and inductive reasoning.
Fuzzy logic can be applied to here too.
And we know that in Shakespeare's day, scientists like Bacon wrote and published an entire book on cyphers, that all the courts used secrets of letter writing that read like anagrams, and it's very possible that Shakespeare, himself, was part of the secret service community.
Problem, though, seems to be that we don't have clues about why Shakespeare would include secret messages, hidden levels of meaning in his works. Let's see; maybe he wrote secretly in plays that would be spoken by troupes traveling in sensitive countries, and receivers never revealed? Or would he have been writing with anagrams that would establish him in future as the real author, for reasons of ego and poetic fame? Did this get added before, during, or after the FF was edited? Or would the same purpose be accomplished in a separate document by Shakespeare or another author?
Don,

This thread talks about Ophelia masturbated Hamlet:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare/kDfW3z44rxc

It's not the most bawdy scene in Shakespeare.
It's not the most difficult to read.
Many reasons Wilton circle needed a frontman (William Shakespeare).
Bawdiness is just one of them.

Do you agree my reading of Ophelia masturbated Hamlet?
Jim F.
2017-08-23 01:22:44 UTC
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Post by Jim F.
Philip Sidney created one-way anagram in his Song for an
Accession Day Tilt (1577). In the song, Philisides and Mira
can easily spell Philip Sidney and Mary.
Next important issue is The Shepheardes Calender (TSC, 1579).
All names in TSC are carefully selected based on Sidney's method.
One quick example is the tale of the Oak and the Brier.
Which made this *foolish Brier* wex so bold,
That on a time he cast him to scold,
And sneb the *good Oak*, for he was old. (TSC, February)
"Foolish Brier" can spell _Frier_. Frier is an obsolete form of Friar.
"Good Oak" can spell _God_. Oak is an obsolete form of yoke.
God giveth good for none other end. (TSC, May)
So what is that "Husbandman" that cuts the "good Oak"?
It's _Human_.
Allegory of the Oak and Brier and Husbandman shows how
The Shepheardes Calender combines identity with function
in naming its characters, including the mysterious E. K.

E. K.'s function is to "eke" the book TSC.
E. K. is derived from TO HIS BOOKE (booKE) of TSC.

The name E. K. appears only twice. In both places,
words around E. K. can spell Mary Sidney.
TSC is dedicated to Philip Sidney.

Areopagus (Ares Rock) is led by Philip Sidney;
Shakespeare (E. K.: "Bellona ... shaked her speare"), by Mary Sidney.
Bellona is the consort of Ares.
marco
2017-08-23 03:36:23 UTC
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name's

My name's macbeth. Macbeth: V, vii
Why, sir, her name's a word; and to dally with that Twelfth Night: III, i

So bad an instrument: his name's parolles. All's Well that Ends Well: V, iii
It is no matter, his name's cinna; pluck but his Julius Caesar: III, iii

I have forgot that name, and that name's woe. Romeo and Juliet: II, iii
Did murder her; as that name's cursed hand Romeo and Juliet: III, iii

A spirit, a spirit: he says his name's poor tom. King Lear: III, iv
name's gonzago: the story is extant, and writ in Hamlet: III, ii

William Shakespeare, gentleman
A***@germanymail.com
2017-08-23 16:09:27 UTC
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Art Neuendorffer
A***@germanymail.com
2017-08-23 16:11:47 UTC
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Art Neuendorffer
Jim F.
2017-09-14 03:43:23 UTC
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Names in The Shepheard Calender combine function and identity, e.g.,
the Oak and the Brier, or E. K. who ekes the booke TSC.

Shepherd Colin, major character in TSC, follows the same rule:

Colin Clout==col'-in-clout (a perfect anagram)
col: an obsolete form of cole.
cole: conjuring trick; a deceiver (OED n.2).
clout: a patch; the mark shot at (OED n.1 6).

Rosalinde==rosal-lined
rosal: rosy, roseate, ruddy (OED).
line: to tie with a line or string; a hint on Manacles.
Rosalinde: a beauty (mistress, poetry) being tied.

Menalcas==Manacles
Colin lost his Rosalinde to Menalcas.

"Shepheard Colin" spells Philip Sidney (a one-way anagram). His mistress
"M. Rosalinde" spells Mary Sidney.
Rosalinde is Philip Sidney's beloved sister and poetry (lines).
marco
2017-10-14 19:54:47 UTC
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Post by Jim F.
Names in The Shepheard Calender combine function and identity, e.g.,
the Oak and the Brier, or E. K. who ekes the booke TSC.
Colin Clout==col'-in-clout (a perfect anagram)
col: an obsolete form of cole.
cole: conjuring trick; a deceiver (OED n.2).
clout: a patch; the mark shot at (OED n.1 6).
Rosalinde==rosal-lined
rosal: rosy, roseate, ruddy (OED).
line: to tie with a line or string; a hint on Manacles.
Rosalinde: a beauty (mistress, poetry) being tied.
Menalcas==Manacles
Colin lost his Rosalinde to Menalcas.
"Shepheard Colin" spells Philip Sidney (a one-way anagram). His mistress
"M. Rosalinde" spells Mary Sidney.
Rosalinde is Philip Sidney's beloved sister and poetry (lines).
.

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