Discussion:
the quaternary hidden within the ternary
(too old to reply)
Arthur Neuendorffer
2020-08-14 15:09:48 UTC
Permalink
----------------------------------------------
http://www.ljhammond.com/phlit/2019-01b.htm

“John Dee talks of the great mystery of the
quaternary [i.e., arithmetic, geometry, astronomy, & music]

hidden within the ternary [grammar, logic, & rhetoric]

his Monas Hieroglyphica of 1564,

then he apologizes to God for spilling the beans!”
-----------------------------------------------------
<<{O}r spunne out Riddles, or weav'd fifty Tomes
__{O}f *LOGOGRIPHES*, or curious Palindromes;
__{O}r pump'd for those hard trifles, Anagrams,
__{O}r Ecrosticks, or your finer flames
__{O}f EGGES , and Halbards, Cradles, and a Herse,
__[A] paire of Sizers, and *a COMBE in verse* ;
__[A]crosticks, and *TELLESTICKS*, or jumpe names,>> - B. Jonson
-------------------------------------------------------------
*TELLESTICKS* found by Jones Harris & John Rollett
............................................................
The Names of the *26* Principall Actors in all these Playes.

[William Shakespeare]
Richard B(ū)rba(D)ge.
John Hemmings.
Augusti(ñ)e Phillip [S].
William Kemp [T].
Thom(ā)s Poop (e).
George Brya (N).
Henry C(O)n[D]el [L].
W(I)l(L)iam S(L) (Y|E).
{R}ichard Cowl [Y].
John Low(I)ne.
Samuell Crosse.
A(L|E]xander Co(O)k{E}.
---------------------------------------------------------------
*STONE*, n. [OE. ston, *STAN*; akin to OS. & OFries. *STEN*,
D. *STEEN*, G. stein, Sw. *STEN*, Dan. *STEEN*, Gr. a pebble.]
..........................................................
Prob. of 'St(e)nley' or 'St(a)nley' ~ 1 in 2,500,000
.................................................................
Prob. (at least) 6 of the 7[ST(e)NLEY] guys were Lord *STRANGE's*
Men while only (at most) 3 of the other 19 PA's were ~ 1 in 450
----------------------------------------------------------------
Samuel Gilburn{E}.
[R]obert Armi(N).
Will(I)am Ostl(E)r.
(N)athan Field.
............................
John Underwoo [D].
{N}icholas T(O)ole {Y}.
William Eccl[E]ston {E}.
Joseph Taylo {R}.
Robert Be[N]fiel {D}.
Robe(R)t Gough {E}.
Richar{D} Robinso {N}.
John Shancke.
John Rice.
------------------------------------------------------------
jumpe names?
.........................................................
. <= *26* =>
.
. [W i l l i a m S h a k e s p e a r e]R i c h a r d B
. (U) r b a D g e.J o h n H e m m i n g s.A u g u s t i
. (N) e P h i l l i p S W i l l i a m K e m p T T h o m
. (A) s P o o p e G e o r g e B r y a N H e n r y C o n
. [D] e l l.W i l L i a m S l Y E R i c h a r d C o w l
. [Y] J o h n L o w I n e.S a m u e l l C r o s s e.A l
. [E] x a n d e r C o O k E S a m u e l G i l b u r n E
. [R] o b e r t A r m i N W i l l i a m O s t l E r N a
. t h a n F i e l d.J o h n U n d e r w o o [D] N i c h
. o l a s T o o l e Y W i l l i a m E c c l [E] s t o n
. e. J o s e p h T a y l o r.R o b e r t B e [N] f i e l
. d.
.
(UNA) 26 : personification of "True Church" in Spenser's FQ
........................
[DYER] 26
[NED] -26
---------------------------------------------------------
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/19553/19553-h/19553-h.htm

. The Private Diary of Dr. John Dee, by John Dee
. INDEX TO THE DIARY.
...................................................
Bacon (Mr.), 16.

Sidney (Sir Philip), 20.
Visits Dr. Dee, 2.

Derby (Earl of), 52, 53, 55, 56, 59.

{DYER} (Mr.), 6, 19, 26, 27, 28, 29, 33.
Visits Dr. Dee, 2.
Ambassador to Denmark, 32.
Reconciled to Dr. Dee, 38.
------------------------------------------------------------------
https://shakespeareoxfordfellowship.org/secrets-dedication-shakespeares-sonnets/

Secrets of the Dedication to Shakespeare’s Sonnets
John M. Rollett

Originally published in THE OXFORDIAN, Volume 2, 1999, pages 60-75

But what I was really hoping to find was examples of Elizabethan ciphers. This took quite a long time, basically because there aren’t any. None have survived, although several people at the time did describe various useful techniques which might have been used, for all we know. (Strictly speaking, one should class acrostics as very simple ciphers. The Elizabethans were certainly fond of them, and quite a lot do survive, especially in poetry.) The only example of a cipher I was able to find was in a biography of John Dee, the Elizabethan savant and astrologer (he was instructed by Robert Dudley to choose an auspicious day for the Queen’s Coronation, and many people would agree that he did a good job). Here (left) is the example his biographer gave to illustrate a method described by John Dee. This reads, going down and up the columns, “The Spanish ships have sailed.” The message would be sent off, reading across, as T H S S A H S H E I E I I V L S N P A E P A S H D. To someone intercepting it, it would obviously proclaim itself as a coded message and to decode it, all one has to do is to count the number of letters––25––and write it out again in a 5 by 5 square. It is amusing to learn that Dee regarded this as “a childish cryptogram such as eny man of knowledge shud be able to resolve.”
..................
. T H S S {A}
. H S H E {I}
. E I I V {L}
. S N P A {E}
. P A S H {D}

THE SPANISH SHIPS HAVE SAILED
{DELIA}
--------------------------------------------
http://tinyurl.com/jq8h944
.
. This Shadowe is renowned Shakespea{R}'s?
. Soule o[F] th' [A]ge [T]he [A]pplause? delight?
. The wonder {O}f the Stage.
. Nature her selfe, was proud of his desi{G}nes
. [A]nd joy'd to weare the dressing of his lines,
. [T]h{E} learned will confess his works as such
. [A]s neithe{R MAN, NOR MUSE} can praise to much
. [F]or *EVER* live thy [FAME], the worl[D] to tell,
. Th[Y] like, no ag[E], shall *EVE[R]* paralell
................................................
[FATA] acrostic : Prob. ~ 1 in 159
................................................
. <= 41 =>
.
. ThisShadoweisrenownedShakespe a {R} sSoule oFth
. AgeTheApplausedelightThewonde r {O} ftheSt ageN
. atureherselfewasproudofhisdes i {G} nesAnd joyd
. towearethedressingofhislinesT h {E} learne dwil
. lconfesshisworksassuchAsneith e {R MANNOR MUSE}
. canpraisetomuchForEVERlivethy F A MEthew orld
. totellThylikenoageshallEVERpa r a lell
.
{ROGER/MANNOR} 41 : Prob. ~ 1 in 2,550
[FATA] 3 : Prob. ~ 1 in 66
[DYER] 9
-----------------------------------------------
_The Man Of Woe_ by Sir Edward [DYER]

The mann whose thoughtes agaynste him do conspyre,
One whom Mishapp her storye dothe depaynt,

Th(E) mann of wo(E), the matte(R) of desier,
{(F)RE<E>} of the dead, [T]h[A]t [L]i[V]e[S] in endles plaint,
His spirit am I, which(E) <I>n this deserte lye,
To rue his cas(E), whose cause I cannot {F}ly[E].

De<S>pay[R]e my nam[E], whoe ne[V]e{R} {F}ind[E]s {R}elei(F|E},
[F]rend{E}d of non{E}, but t<O> my selfe a {F}oe;
[A]n idle car{E}, [M]ayntaynd{E} by {F}i{R}m{E} b{E}l{E}ife
[T]hat p<R|A)ayse o{F} {F|A)y(T)h(E) sh[A]ll throughe my to{R}ments g{R}owe,
[A]nd counte thos{E} hope[S], that oth{E}rs hartes do {E}ase,
Butt base conceit{E}s the c[O]mmon sense to please.

For sure I am I never shall attay[N]e
The happy good from whence my joys aryse;
Nor haue I powre my sorrows to refrayne
But wayle the wante, when noughte ellse maye suffyse;
Whereby my lyfe the shape of deathe muste beare,
That deathe which feeles the worst that lyfe doth feare.

But what auayles withe tragicall complaynt(E),
Not hopinge healpe, the Furyes to awake?
Or why should(E) I the happy mynds aquaynte
With doleful tunnes, thei(R)e settled peace to shake?
All ye that here behoulde In(F)ortune's feare,
May judge noe woe may withe my gref compare.
................................................
[FATA] acrostic : Prob. ~ 1 in 169
................................................
{FREE} 1, 26, 6, 11, 2, 24, 30
(FREE) -9, -28 : Prob. of 8(FREE)s ~ 1 in 6700

(FREE) -44
[MASON] 44

<ROSIE> -51
[TALVS] 2
[E.VERE] -7
(FATE) 2,-6
-------------------------------------------------------
. _The History of Troylus and Cresseida_ (1609)
. *A n[EVER] writer, to an [EVER] reader. Newes.*
.
Eternall rea[DE]r, y{O|U] ha{V|E] he{E|R]e a n[E]w {PLAY},
.............................................................
. <= 4 =>
.
. E t
. e r n a
. l l r e
. a [D E] r,
. y {O}[U] h
. a {V}[E] h
. e {E}[R] e
. a n [E] w
. {P L A Y},
.
[D/E UERE] 4 : Prob. in 1st phrase ~ 1 in 1,000
{DOVE} 4
..................................................................
n[EVER] stal'd with the stage,
n[EVER] clapper-claw'd with the palmes of the vulger, and yet passing
full of the palme comicall; for it is a birth of your braine, that
n[EVER] under-tooke any thing commicall, vainely : and were but the
va[I]ne n[A]mes [O]f co[M]medies changde for the *TITLEs of COMMODITIES*
, or of *PLAYS for PLEAS* ; you should see all those grand censors,
that now stile them such vanities, flock to them for the maine grace of
their gravities: especially this authors commedies, that are so fram'd
to the life, that they serve for the most common commentaries of all
th{E} actions of our lives, shewing such a dexteritie and power of
witte, that the most {D}ispleased with playes, are pleasd with his
commedies. And all such dull and heav{Y}witted worldlings, as were
n[EVER] capable of the witte of a com[M]edie, comming by r{E}port [O]f
them to his represent[A]tions, have found that w[I]tte there, that
they n{EVER} found in them-felves, and have parted better-wittied
then they came : feeling a{N ED}ge of witte set upon them, more then
{EVE<R>} they dreamd they had braine to grinde it <O>n. So much an{D}
such savored salt of witte i<S> in his commedies, that the{Y} seeme
(for the<I>r height of pleasure) to be borne in that s<E>a that
brought forth Venus. Amongst all there is none mo{R}e
.........................................................................
. <= 66 =>
.
. ofa l lth {E} actions o fourlivessh e wingsuch adex teriti e andpowerofwittethat
. the m ost {D} ispleas e dwithplayes a repleasd with hiscom m ediesAndallsuchdull
. and h eav {Y} wittedw o rldlingsasw e renEVERc apab leofth e witteofacomMediecom
. min g byr {E} portOft h emtohisrepr e sentAtio nsha vefoun d thatwIttetherethatt
. hey n {EVER} foundin t hemfelvesan d havepart edbe tterwi t tiedthentheycamefee
. lin g a {NED} geofwit t esetuponthe m morethen {EVER} theyd<R>
. eam d t hey hadbrai n etogrindeit<O>nSomuchan {D} suchsavo
. red s a lto fwittei<S>inhiscommed i esthatthe {Y} seemefor
. the<I>r hei ghtofpl e asuretobebo r neinthats <E> athatbro
. ugh t f ort hVenusA m ongstallthe r eisnonemo {R} ewitty
.
. <= 57 =>
....................................................................
w[I]tty than this: and had I time I would c[O]mment upon it,
though I know it needs [N]ot, (for so much as will make you
think[E] your testerne well bestowd) but for [S]o much worth,
as even poore I know (T)o be stuft in it.
It DEsERVEs such a labour, (A)s well as the best commedy in
Terence or P(L)autus. And beleeve this, that when hee is g(O)ne,
and his commedies out of sale, you will (S)cramble for them,
....................................................................
. <= 30 =>
.
. w [I] t t y t h a n t h i s:a n d h a d I t i m e I w o u l d
. c [O] m m e n t u p o n i t,t h o u g h I k n o w i t n e e d
. s [N] o t(f o r s o m u c h a s w i l l m a k e y o u t h i n
. k [E] y o u r t e s t e r n e w e l l b e s t o w d)b u t f o
. r [S] o m u c h w o r t h,a s e v e n p o o r e I k n o w (T) o b e s t
. u f t i n i t.I t D E s E R V E s s u c h a l a b o u r,(A) s w e l l
. a s t h e b e s t c o m m e d y i n T e r e n c e o r P (L) a u t u s.
. A n d b e l e e v e t h i s,t h a t w h e n h e e i s g (O) n e,a n d
. h i s c o m m e d i e s o u t o f s a l e,y o u w i l l (S).c r a m b
. l e f o r t h e m,
.
[IONES] 30
<ROSIE> 34
(TALOS) 34
.........................................................................
So much an{D} such savored salt of witte is in his commedies,
that the{Y} seeme (for their height of pleasure) to be borne
in that s{E}a that brought forth Venus. Amongst all there is
none mo{R}e witty than this: and had I time I would comment upon it,
though I know it needs not, (for so much as will make you thinke
your testerne w[E]ll bestowd) but for so much worth, as even poore
I know to be stuft in it. It DEsER[V]Es such a labour,
as well as the best commedy in Terence or Plautus.
And beleev[E] this, that when hee is (G)one, and
his commedies out of sale, you will scramble fo[R] them, and set
u(P) a new English inquisition. Take this for a warning, and at
the p[E]rrill (O)f your pleasures losse, and judgements, refuse not,
..................................................................
[E.VERE] 63
..................................................................
nor like this th{E} l(E)sse, for not being sullied with the *SMOAKY*
breath of the multitu{D}e; bu(T) thanke fortune for the scape it
hath made amongst you : since b{Y} the grand possessors wills I
believe you shoul[D] have PRAYD for th{E}m rather th[E]n beene PRAYD.
And so I leave al[L] such to bee prayd for ({FOR} the s[T]ates of
their wits healths) th[A]t will not PRAISE it. Vale,
........................................................................
. <= 25 =>
.
. I b e l i e v e y o u s h o u l [D] h a v e P R A Y
. D f o r t h{E}m r a t h e r t h [E] n b e e n e P R
. A Y D.A n d s o I l e a v e a l [L] s u c h t o b e
. e p r a y d f o r(F O R}t h e s [T] a t e s o f t h
. e i r w i t s h e a l t h s)t h [A] t w i l l n o t
. P R A I S E i t.V a l e,
.
[DELTA] 25
........................................................................
. <= 56 =>
.
. thatwhen h e e i s(G)o n e a ndhiscommediesoutofsaleyouwillscramble
. forthema n d s e t u(P)a n e wEnglishinquisitionTakethisforAwarning
. andatthe p e r r i l l(O)f y ourpleasureslosseandjudgeMentsrefuseno
. tnorlike t h i s t h{E}l(E)s sefornotbeingsulliedwiththeSMOAKYbreat
. hofthemu l t i t u{D}e b u(T) thankefortuneforthescapeithathmadeamon
. gstyousi n c e b{Y}t h e g r andpossessorswillsIbelieveyoushouldhav
. ePRAYDfo r t h{E}m r a t h e rthenbeenePRAYDAndsoIleaveallsuchtobee
. praydfor {F O R}t h e s t a t esoftheirwitshealthsthatwillnotPRAISE
.
(G POET) 57
{DYER} -10,46,-57 : Prob. of 5{DYER}s ~ 1 in 223
{E.DYER} 66,55
------------------------------------------------------
http://spenserians.cath.vt.edu/BiographyRecord.php?bioid=15

Anthony Wood, Athenae Oxonienses (1690-91; 1721) 1:322-23.

EDWARD DYER was of the same Family, as it seems, with those of his Name living in Somersetshire, and received some of his Academical Education in Oxon, particularly, as I conceive in Bal. Coll. or Broadgate's-hall, where his natural inclinations to Poetry and other polite Learning, as also his Excellency in bewailing and bemoaning the perplexities of Love, were observ'd by his Contemporaries. But leaving the University without a Degree, he travelled beyond the Seas, and at his return being esteemed a well-bred Gentleman, was taken into the Service of the Royal Court, being then look'd upon as a most ingenious Person, rank'd with some of the most noted Poets living in the reign of Qu. Elizabeth, and a contributor with the chief of them, out of his Writings, to the Collection of choice Flowers and Descriptions that were published about the beginning of K. James I.

At riper Years he studied and labour'd much in Chymistry,
was esteemed by some a <ROSIE>-crucian, and a great Devotee
to Dr. John Dee and Edw. Kelly Astrologers and Chymists,
especially the last, whom he confidently believed
to have obtained the grand secret called the Elixir.

The Qu. knew and had a great respect for him and his excellent parts, and having spent some time in foreign Countries, she therefore employed him in several Embassies beyound the Seas, particularly to Denmark in 1589; And in his passage thither, he called on the said Dee and Kelley who were then near or in Bohemia, and being with Kelley alone in his Elaboratory, he saw him put of the base Mettal into the Cr[u]cible, and after it was set a little upon the Fire and a very small quantity of the Vessel (i.e. Elixir) put in and stirred with a stick of Wood, it came forth in great proportion perfect Gold. This very thing after his (Sir Edw. Dyer's) return, he aver'd openly at the Archbishop's Table at Lambeth before several learned Persons. After his said return the Qu. being well satisfied with the Services he had done to the Crown, she conferr'd on him the Chancellorship of the Garter, upon the Death of Sir Jo. Wolley, in the beginning of 1596, and at that time the Degree of Knighthood, being then esteemed by all to be a grave and wise Gentleman. He hath written,

Pastoral Odes and Madrigals — Some of these are in the Collection before mentioned, as also

A Description of Friendship — This is a Poem, and is in the Ashmolean Musaeum, numb. 781. p. 139. What other things he has written I cannot tell, and therefore I shall only say that he died some Years after K. James I. came to the Crown, and was succeeded in his Chancellorship of the Garter by Sir Joh. Herbert, Knight, principal Secretary of State.
-----------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
David Webb
2020-08-20 13:41:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
http://www.ljhammond.com/phlit/2019-01b.htm
“John Dee talks of the great mystery of the
quaternary [i.e., arithmetic, geometry, astronomy, & music]
hidden within the ternary [grammar, logic, & rhetoric]
his Monas Hieroglyphica of 1564,
then he apologizes to God for spilling the beans!”
-----------------------------------------------------
<<{O}r spunne out Riddles, or weav'd fifty Tomes
__{O}f *LOGOGRIPHES*, or curious Palindromes;
__{O}r pump'd for those hard trifles, Anagrams,
__{O}r Ecrosticks, or your finer flames
__{O}f EGGES , and Halbards, Cradles, and a Herse,
__[A] paire of Sizers, and *a COMBE in verse* ;
__[A]crosticks, and *TELLESTICKS*, or jumpe names,>> - B. Jonson
That isn't worth DEEdly SQUATernary, Art!

[Crackpot cryptography snipped]
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
John Underwoo [D].
{N}icholas T(O)ole {Y}.
William Eccl[E]ston {E}.
Joseph Taylo {R}.
Robert Be[N]fiel {D}.
Robe(R)t Gough {E}.
Richar{D} Robinso {N}.
John Shancke.
John Rice.
"DYERDEN [sic]" is moronic nonsense, Art.

[Crackpot cryptography snipped]
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
https://shakespeareoxfordfellowship.org/secrets-dedication-shakespeares-sonnets/
Secrets of the Dedication to Shakespeare’s Sonnets
John M. Rollett
Originally published in THE OXFORDIAN, Volume 2, 1999, pages 60-75
But what I was really hoping to find was examples of Elizabethan ciphers.
This took quite a long time, basically because there aren’t any.
There you have it, Art: there aren't any!

[Lunatic logorrhea snipped]
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
_The Man Of Woe_ by Sir Edward [DYER]
But Art -- Oxford's association with Virginia Padoana makes him the Man of Ho.

[Crackpot cryptography snipped]
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
. <= 4 =>
.
. E t
. e r n a
. l l r e
. a [D E] r,
. y {O}[U] h
. a {V}[E] h
. e {E}[R] e
. a n [E] w
. {P L A Y},
.
The string "DEUERE" does not occur as an equidistant letter sequence of skip 4 -- or for that matter, as an equidistant letter sequence of *any* skip -- in the above text, Art. A word that does appear as an equidistant letter sequence of skip 4 is "REVERE". But an illiterate who cannot distinguish "R" from "S" (as in "I kill Edwasd [sic] de Vese [sic]") is unlikely to be able to distinguish "D" from "R" either.

Prob. in 1st phrase ~ 1 in 1,000
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
{DOVE} 4
..................................................................
n[EVER] stal'd with the stage,
n[EVER] clapper-claw'd with the palmes of the vulger, and yet passing
full of the palme comicall; for it is a birth of your braine, that
n[EVER] under-tooke any thing commicall, vainely : and were but the
va[I]ne n[A]mes [O]f co[M]medies changde for the *TITLEs of COMMODITIES*
, or of *PLAYS for PLEAS* ; you should see all those grand censors,
that now stile them such vanities, flock to them for the maine grace of
their gravities: especially this authors commedies, that are so fram'd
to the life, that they serve for the most common commentaries of all
th{E} actions of our lives, shewing such a dexteritie and power of
witte, that the most {D}ispleased with playes, are pleasd with his
commedies. And all such dull and heav{Y}witted worldlings, as were
n[EVER] capable of the witte of a com[M]edie, comming by r{E}port [O]f
them to his represent[A]tions, have found that w[I]tte there, that
they n{EVER} found in them-felves, and have parted better-wittied
then they came : feeling a{N ED}ge of witte set upon them, more then
{EVE<R>} they dreamd they had braine to grinde it <O>n. So much an{D}
such savored salt of witte i<S> in his commedies, that the{Y} seeme
(for the<I>r height of pleasure) to be borne in that s<E>a that
brought forth Venus. Amongst all there is none mo{R}e
Both "ever" and "never" are commonplace English words, Art; it's a pity that both of them are evidently unfamiliar to you.

[Crackpot cryptography snipped]
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
nor like this th{E} l(E)sse, for not being sullied with the *SMOAKY*
breath of the multitu{D}e; bu(T) thanke fortune for the scape it
hath made amongst you : since b{Y} the grand possessors wills I
believe you shoul[D] have PRAYD for th{E}m rather th[E]n beene PRAYD.
And so I leave al[L] such to bee prayd for ({FOR} the s[T]ates of
their wits healths) th[A]t will not PRAISE it. Vale,
........................................................................
. <= 25 =>
.
. I b e l i e v e y o u s h o u l [D] h a v e P R A Y
. D f o r t h{E}m r a t h e r t h [E] n b e e n e P R
. A Y D.A n d s o I l e a v e a l [L] s u c h t o b e
. e p r a y d f o r(F O R}t h e s [T] a t e s o f t h
. e i r w i t s h e a l t h s)t h [A] t w i l l n o t
. P R A I S E i t.V a l e,
.
[DELTA] 25
Huh? Are you suggesting that Oxford wrote _The Delta of Venus_ as well as _The Merchant of Venice_, Art?!

[Crackpot cryptography snipped]
Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
-----------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer (aka Noonedafter)
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