my *searchable* card file {For}[SIDNEI] & posterity.

[Arthur Neuendorffer]

Peter Nockolds wrote:

<<I assume you post your ELSs here as a record for posterity.>>
....................................................
It is my *searchable* card file
that also hopefully catches someones attention.

It also serves as a dateable record for posterity.
-------------------------------------------
Peter Nockolds wrote:

<<Obviously it's possible to write using ELSs but I think difficult to write good poetry or prose incorporating and ELS, have you tried?>>
....................................................
There are numerous examples of Jacobians writing *acrostic*
poetry; why would ELS poetry or prose be any harder?
-----------------------------------------------------------
https://riverdale.fandom.com/wiki/Baxter_High

<<*BAXTER* High is the secondary school in Greendale.
. . Baxter High is in open competition with
. [Archie Andrews]'s Riverdale High School.>>
-----------------------------------------------------------
. 'Sidney's Ouriana' (1606) by Nathaniel *BAXTER*
, Dedication poem:
.
. To the Right Noble, and Honorable
. Lady Susan *VERA MONG(omrian)A.*
.
http://www.leadbetter.cc/nelson/ITALY/Baxter.html
.................................................................
[V] (A) liant whilome t[H]e *PRINC[E]* that ba[R]e this M[O]t,
[E] (NG.) ra{V}ed round about his *GOLDEN RING* :
[R] (O) aming in VENICE er{E} thou wast begot,
[A] (MONG.) the Gallants of th'Italian sp{R}ING.
.
[N] (E) [VER O]mitting what mi(G)ht pastime bRING,
[I] (T) ali{A|N) sports, and Syrens Melodie:
[H] (O) pp(I)ng Helena with he(R) warbling sting,
[I] (N) fested th'Albanian dignitie,
[L] (I) ke as they poysoned all Italie.
.
[V] (I) gilant then th'eternall majestie
[E] (N) thraled soules to free from infamie:
[R] (E) memb(RING) thy sacred {V}irginitie,
[I] (N) duced us to make speedie r{E}paire,
[U] (N) to thy moth[ER EVE]rlasting fai{R}e,
[S] (O) did this Prince begette thee *debon{A}ire*.
..............................................
[HERO] 7 : Prob. in first line ~ 1 in 190
.
{VERA} 43,33 : Prob. of 2 ~ 1 in 70
[gematria value of {VERA} = 43]
-----------------------------------------------
Peter Nockolds wrote:

<<It may be quite difficult to show why anyone would create an ELS as well.>>

1) For the same reason Jacobians wrote *acrostic* poetry.
2) As a hidden record for posterity.
----------------------------------------------------
. The Original 1590 quarto edition!
...............................................
http://tinyurl.com/pma5gmz
http://tinyurl.com/nsvfzdm
.
The Covntesse of Pembrokes Arcadia,
. written by Sir Philippe [SIDNEI].
---------------------------------------------------------------
*125* is the gematric number, being the sum of the English
characters for PHILIP SIDNEI = [(15+8+9+11+9+15)+(18+9+4+13+5+9)]
.......................................................
. . . . . Sonnet *125*

. WEr't ought to me I "bore the canopy",
. With my extern the outward honoring,
. Or layd great bases {For} eternity,
. Which proues more [S]hort then wast or ruining?
. Haue [I] not seene dwellers on forme an[D] fauor
. Lose all,and more by payi[N]g too much rent
. For compound sw[E]et;Forgoing simple sauor,
. Pitt[I]full thriuors in their gazing spent.
. Noe,let me be obsequious in thy heart,
. And take thou my oblacion,poore but free,
. Which is not mixt with seconds,knows no art,
. But mutuall render onely me for thee.
. Hence,thou subbornd Informer, a trew soule
. When most impeacht,stands least in thy controule.
.......................................................
. . . . . <= *26* =>
.
. {F o r} e t e r n i t y,W h i c h p r o u e s m o r e
. [S] h o r t t h e n w a s t o r r u i n i n g?H a u e
. [I] n o t s e e n e d w e l l e r s o n f o r m e a n
. [D] f a u o r L o s e a l l,a n d m o r e b y p a y i
. [N] g t o o m u c h r e n t F o r c o m p o u n d s w
. [E] e t;F o r g o i n g s i m p l e s a u o r,P i t t
. [I] f u l l t h r i u o r s i n t h e i r g a z i n g
.
{For}[SIDNEI] *26* : starting in 3rd line.
---------------------------------------------------
. . . . . Sonnet 47
.
. BEtwixt mine eye and heart a league is tooke,
. And each doth good turnes now vnto the other,
. When that mine eye is famisht {For} a looke,
. Or heart in loue with [S]ighes himselfe doth smother;
. W[I]th my loues picture then my eye [D]oth feast,
. And to the painted ba[N]quet bids my heart:
. An other tim[E] mine eye is my hearts guest,
. And [I]n his thoughts of loue doth share a part.
. So either by thy picture or my loue,
. Thy seife away,are present still with me,
. For thou nor farther then my thoughts canst moue,
. And I am still with them,and they with thee.
. Or if they sleepe, thy picture in my sight
. Awakes my heart,to hearts and eyes delight.
.......................................................
. . . . . <= *26* =>
.
. {F o r} a l o o k e,O r h e a r t i n l o u e w i t h
. [S] i g h e s h i m s e l f e d o t h s m o t h e r;W
. [I] t h m y l o u e s p i c t u r e t h e n m y e y e
. [D] o t h f e a s t,A n d t o t h e p a i n t e d b a
. [N] q u e t b i d s m y h e a r t:A n o t h e r t i m
. [E] m i n e e y e i s m y h e a r t s g u e s t,A n d
. [I] n h i s t h o u g h t s
.
{For}[SIDNEI] *26* : starting in 3rd line.
.......................................................
Prob. of 2{For}[SIDNEI]s same skip ~ 1 in 34,000,000
.................................................
Shortest {For}[SIDNEI] skip in KJV : 869
Shortest {For}[SIDNEI] skip in Moby Dick : 2818
----------------------------------------------------------
. . . . . . . . *26* days
.......................................................
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Sidney#Injury_and_death

<<[Sir Philip Sidney (30 November 1554 - 17 October 1586)]
joined Sir John Norris in the Battle of Zutphen, fighting for
the Protestant cause against the Spanish. During the battle,
he was shot in the thigh & died of gangrene *26* days later.>>
------------------------------------------------------------
Art N.

[Peter Nockolds]

Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
<<I assume you post your ELSs here as a record for posterity.>>
....................................................
It is my *searchable* card file

Its supposed to be a discussion group, not your personal file. You've annoyed the hell out of a lot of people.

Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
that also hopefully catches someones attention.
It also serves as a dateable record for posterity.
-------------------------------------------
<<Obviously it's possible to write using ELSs but I think difficult to write good poetry or prose incorporating and ELS, have you tried?>>
....................................................
There are numerous examples of Jacobians writing *acrostic*
poetry; why would ELS poetry or prose be any harder?

Have you tried? Writing an acrostic poem is no more difficult than writing a rhyme, easier perhaps. Writing ELSs you have continually to count letters. Try it.

Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
1) For the same reason Jacobians wrote *acrostic* poetry.
2) As a hidden record for posterity.

Acrostics are easy to spot, you don't need to wait for posterity.

ELSs is would need to have the key handed down orally. I accept that as a possibility.

Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
---------------------------------------------------------------
*125* is the gematric number, being the sum of the English
characters for PHILIP SIDNEI = [(15+8+9+11+9+15)+(18+9+4+13+5+9)]

English or Latin? Do you have any explicit evidence for the use of English gematria. Was the alphabet fixed?

Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
.......................................................
. . . . . Sonnet *125*
. WEr't ought to me I "bore the canopy",
. With my extern the outward honoring,
. Or layd great bases {For} eternity,
. Which proues more [S]hort then wast or ruining?
. Haue [I] not seene dwellers on forme an[D] fauor
. Lose all,and more by payi[N]g too much rent
. For compound sw[E]et;Forgoing simple sauor,
. Pitt[I]full thriuors in their gazing spent.
. Noe,let me be obsequious in thy heart,
. And take thou my oblacion,poore but free,
. Which is not mixt with seconds,knows no art,
. But mutuall render onely me for thee.
. Hence,thou subbornd Informer, a trew soule
. When most impeacht,stands least in thy controule.
.......................................................
. . . . . <= *26* =>
.
. {F o r} e t e r n i t y,W h i c h p r o u e s m o r e
. [S] h o r t t h e n w a s t o r r u i n i n g?H a u e
. [I] n o t s e e n e d w e l l e r s o n f o r m e a n
. [D] f a u o r L o s e a l l,a n d m o r e b y p a y i
. [N] g t o o m u c h r e n t F o r c o m p o u n d s w
. [E] e t;F o r g o i n g s i m p l e s a u o r,P i t t
. [I] f u l l t h r i u o r s i n t h e i r g a z i n g
.
{For}[SIDNEI] *26* : starting in 3rd line.
---------------------------------------------------
. . . . . Sonnet 47
.
. BEtwixt mine eye and heart a league is tooke,
. And each doth good turnes now vnto the other,
. When that mine eye is famisht {For} a looke,
. Or heart in loue with [S]ighes himselfe doth smother;
. W[I]th my loues picture then my eye [D]oth feast,
. An other tim[E] mine eye is my hearts guest,
. And [I]n his thoughts of loue doth share a part.
. So either by thy picture or my loue,
. Thy seife away,are present still with me,
. For thou nor farther then my thoughts canst moue,
. And I am still with them,and they with thee.
. Or if they sleepe, thy picture in my sight
. Awakes my heart,to hearts and eyes delight.
.......................................................
. . . . . <= *26* =>
.
. {F o r} a l o o k e,O r h e a r t i n l o u e w i t h
. [S] i g h e s h i m s e l f e d o t h s m o t h e r;W
. [I] t h m y l o u e s p i c t u r e t h e n m y e y e
. [D] o t h f e a s t,A n d t o t h e p a i n t e d b a
. [N] q u e t b i d s m y h e a r t:A n o t h e r t i m
. [E] m i n e e y e i s m y h e a r t s g u e s t,A n d
. [I] n h i s t h o u g h t s
.
{For}[SIDNEI] *26* : starting in 3rd line.
.......................................................
Prob. of 2{For}[SIDNEI]s same skip ~ 1 in 34,000,000
.................................................
Shortest {For}[SIDNEI] skip in KJV : 869
Shortest {For}[SIDNEI] skip in Moby Dick : 2818

2818/897 ~ 2730/869 ~ pi. (Try them out, but I think it's just coincidence/synchronicity)

Post by Arthur Neuendorffer
----------------------------------------------------------
. . . . . . . . *26* days
.......................................................
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Sidney#Injury_and_death
<<[Sir Philip Sidney (30 November 1554 - 17 October 1586)]
joined Sir John Norris in the Battle of Zutphen, fighting for
the Protestant cause against the Spanish. During the battle,
he was shot in the thigh & died of gangrene *26* days later.>>

Two 26 SIDNEI ELS's You have repeatability and two control samples. Sounds promising.

Philip Sidney started to versify the Psalms. Sister Mary finished the job. I just bought a copy.

26 = the name of God in Hebrew.

125 - 47 = 3 x 26.

Maybe the reason the sonnets are so difficult to read is because the author sacrificed legibility for ELSs.

If you do want posterity to note these things take your best examples, present them in an easy to read form, and give them a context. They will just get lost otherwise.

BTW I had a go at authorial ELSs in Virgil and Ovid and even got an interested reply from one academic. It's quite common amongst classics scholars to look for acrostics and telestics, even if they speak somewhat apologetically of 'men in white coats'. I think the way Latin was written without spaces to some extent might encourage ELSs

Peter